Woodie Shooter... Need Help!

[ThePushArchery]

I am in quite a predicament. I am new to making wooden arrows and I have encountered a big problem. First let me step you through how I make them.

POC shafts purchased from 3R.
Straighten.
Stain with Minwax.
Straighten.
Stain again w Minwax.
Straighten.

Taper knock end, and glue Bohning 'T' knocks w/ Bohning Fletch Tite Platinum. I make sure to align knock so grain is 90º from string.

Cut to length and taper tip end, and glue tip on with high strength hot melt.

Poly w Minwax spray poly (4 - 5 coats) and straighten between coats.

Fletch and shoot.

My problem is that After about 50 shots to an arrow, the arrow splits at the knock and splits down te center of my arrow, and I align my knocks correctly! I have made about 18 arrows, and 4 of them have done this. They have split at the knock, making my bow feel the energy as if I dry fired it. I have another 18 shafts uncut that quite frankly I am scared to make up. The funny thing is that the arrow splits down the shaft as if the string blows right through the arrow. So it is failing against the grain which seems odd to me.


What am I doing wrong?? Should I be using the hot melt instead of the Bohning fletch tight? Keep in mind I have only used these knocks on all the arrows I've shot, and glued them on aluminums with no problems to date.

I am baffled as to why these arrows are failing like this. Should I scrap the 13-14 made arrows I have left and do something different, or are these arrows salvagable? Any info is greatly appreciated.

Matt

[ThePushArchery]

I might add, that these arrows have failed out of both my Bob Lee, and my RER Arroyo. I am scared to damage one of these bows.

One is Dacron the other Fast flight. I've had them fail in both 30º weather. (today) and 70ºambient, (indoor bow range)

[Killdeer]

Dang! So, Your NOCKS are failing. Other than your penchant for sealing after putting on nocks and tips, you do stuff in the same order that I do. Yes, use the glue for the nocks, instead of hot melt. As long as the glue sticks to the finish, there is no problem there. How is the string fit in the nock throat?

The arrow would not split if the nock did not fail, so I would look there.

Killdeer   :confused:    :eek:

[WESTBROOK]

Those T-nock are pretty tight on my strings, probably even tighter on a B-50.

Eric

[Orion]

Wow.  That's wierd.  I've never had a shaft split down its length from the nock, and I've been shooting wood for more than 40 years.  Not familiar with T nocks, but I do use Bohning classic index nocks.  I would replace those you have on your current arrows.

[ishiwannabe]

I have never been able to get fletch tite to bond well with minwax products. Try duco cement?

[stump man]

Not sure I follow, are the knok's failing first causing the wood to then split?  Or are the knok's fine and just the wood splits??

There is a cellular structure in all woods which lies 90 degrees perpendicular to annual growth rings called "medullary ray cells". All woods are subject to following this structure when split (example-fire wood). If your shafts were made from lumber sawn accross this structure instead of split "bolts" they may be subject to failure in this manner. It would run off the shaft rather quickley(1 or 2 inches) vs running down the length of the entire shaft or at least a good portion of it(8-10 inches).  If this "splitting" is running off the shaft in the 1"-2" range I would consider the whole lot unsafe.

My .02 cents
stump

[Raminshooter]

This is nothing that you have done.  This is simply a shaft that already had a "crack" or "split" in it when you built your arrow.  As long as you have plastic nocks on your arrows you should be OK to move forward.  The shaft could have been split in the dowling process to begin with and was such a hairline crack you could not notice it.

[stump man]

raminshooter


4 out of 18 is a 22% failure rate.  I would find out whats going on before simply "moving forward".

stump

[30coupe]

Originally posted by Raminshooter:
This is nothing that you have done.  This is simply a shaft that already had a "crack" or "split" in it when you built your arrow.  As long as you have plastic nocks on your arrows you should be OK to move forward.  The shaft could have been split in the dowling process to begin with and was such a hairline crack you could not notice it.

I could buy that with one, maybe even two out of a dozen, but not four. If you are splitting the nock and the wood across the growth rings, that is unusual. I hate to be negative, but I think you have your shafts 90 degrees off. They may also be under spined, which breaks the shaft first and then the nock has no choice but to split right along with it. Double check you alignment, then make sure they are spined correctly. A chunk of arrow sticking out of your arm is a harsh way to learn a lesson. I have seen it happen.

[Van/TX]

Wish I could help but don't have a clue.  I've never seen or heard of anything like that before.  I've only had one nock fail at release in my whole life.  But even if a nock failed I can't see how the shaft would split. Something ain't right.  I wouldn't shoot those anymore.  You got any pics?...Van

[Shaun]

If you are too good a shot, you may be hitting your nocks and cracking them and then they fail on subsequent shots. Or, your glue may be weakening the nocks, dissolving the plastic. Even when I have had bad or weakened nocks break, the arrow never split. Maybe a bad batch of shafts? Hope you solve the problem.

[reddogge]

Why don't you post a couple of close ups of your set up and a failed arrow so we can understand better.

[ThePushArchery]

thanks for thew help all. I will try and post some pics for you.

I have the grain of my shafts aligned correctly no doubt in my mind. The knocks are splitting right in half vertically at the throat, and the arrow is then splitting. I don't know what is happening first, but all I knnow is that my arrow doesn't make is 5 ft from me, and my bow is taking all the force.

Also, it is splitting no less that 8 inches down the shaft. Not 2-3". I have one that happened to me today, that split a good 18" down the center of the shaft.

I am going to scrap these arrows. It pains me to see all this hard work go to nothing.

[stump man]

Your last post tells me the shafts are most likely very good shafts.  I would focus on the knock itself or the taper.  wish I could be of more help.
 
stump

[Hot Hap]

From your last post I think your nocks are aligned wrong. If the nock and arrow are splitting down the the same path, then the nock groove would not be opposite the grain of the arrow.
All of the POC shafts that I have saw that were bad had a dark line in the growth ring. The bad shafts were easily noticed.
Good luck-Hap

[Stick_N_String]

That is strange!!! I've built hundred's of wood arrow's for myself and have never had one split like that. Usually they split after I miss and hit a rock. LOL!!!
Keep us informed as to what you find out, I need to order some more shaft's but now I'm kinda hesitant too.
Daren

[stump man]

Hap

His original post
 "So it is failing against the grain which seems odd to me."

the way I read this is the fractures are not following annual growth rings but perpendicular to them.

stump

[Orion]

I think 30 coupe may be right in suggesting the spine may be way weak.  Have you tested the shafts on a spine tester?  At the least flex them in your hands and compare the flex to other arrows that shoot well out of your bow. It's not at all unusual for shafts to be spined at something other than what the vendor says they are.

[aromakr]

If you would like send one of the split arrows and a shaft not made up to me and let me look at them. I'll send them back too you. send them too Whispering Wind arrows. 77 Pointe way- Hamilton, Mt. 59840
What tapering tool are you using. also on the shaft not made up put a nock taper on it.
Bob