Author Topic: The perfect arrow (Read 2557 times)

TomMcDonald · « **Reply #40 on:** February 03, 2009, 09:30:00 PM »

How long would the parrarel section of the Footing need to be before it starts to change the spine of the arrow? Would it change the static spine at all? or is too close to the end to make a difference?

KYArcher · « **Reply #41 on:** February 03, 2009, 09:36:00 PM »

I Like It! KY

NorthernCaliforniaHunter · « **Reply #42 on:** February 03, 2009, 10:54:00 PM »

Excellent post O.L.
I'll be attempting to tune my first arrows this weekend and they happen to be carbon. I have NO idea where to start... HA!

aussiebowhunter · « **Reply #43 on:** February 03, 2009, 11:50:00 PM »

great info,thankyou
pat

Kingwouldbe · « **Reply #44 on:** February 04, 2009, 01:19:00 AM »

I have been doing the outside footing and it does make it stronger, but it also just moves the weak spot as I broke shafts right at or just behind the footing

Thanks for more things to test

redant 60/65 · « **Reply #45 on:** February 04, 2009, 01:38:00 AM »

Dave
OL talked about that in he's first post. but it looks like a lot of work to save a arrow. Not to blow my horn, but I just don't miss that much any more.

Dave Bulla · « **Reply #46 on:** February 04, 2009, 01:43:00 AM »

Redant,

I went back and read O.L.'s first post and don't see anything like what I'm talking about mentioned. He talks about internal and external tubes and adding slugs of various materials (including tungsten) between the insert and the dowell but nothing like what I'm thinking.

I'll see if I can't draw it up on paper and either scan it or take a pic and put it in the thread.

Deadsmple · « **Reply #47 on:** February 07, 2009, 12:05:00 PM »

Very interesting stuff. I wonder if this can be adapted to a full taper arrow like the Arrow Dynamics.

M60gunner · « **Reply #48 on:** February 07, 2009, 01:13:00 PM »

Yes, very interesting stuff but I wonder if I can make it work with my Easton ST Axis shafts? They are real skinny to begin with and using a dowel that skinny may not add that much FOC.
O.L., is this better than the brass tubing method you wrote about last year? I have found tubing for my Axis shafts just have not got around to trying it yet.

O.L. Adcock · « **Reply #49 on:** February 07, 2009, 02:02:00 PM »

M60, Oh yes, much easier and works as good if not better. Not doing this for FOC but it does help, doing strictly for durability. A fellow can do more with brass, steel, or tungsten for the FOC thing. Skinny shafts like ST's, better to make the footing out of carbon rod. The Doc should be posting some photos soon of a cutway shaft.

DeadSmple, if it's hollow it'll work.

Dave, what you're thinking would work great IF you get it long enough and bendy enough to spread out the forces and it doesn't weigh 2000 grains! Doing these in steel would be very heavy, the steel would be too stiff, and the machining process too expensive. Some manufactures have played with this, materials cheap and easy to mold are too soft and don't work, and anything requiring machining or turning just way too expensive....O.L.

Matabele · « **Reply #50 on:** February 07, 2009, 02:32:00 PM »

Fantastic, I've been waiting for this. Thanks for sharing, its great information!!

Lone archer · « **Reply #51 on:** February 07, 2009, 10:03:00 PM »

What about filling the front end of the arrow with caulking or silicone or something alittle more rubberized for weight.

You could tell how far into the shaft the filling was going by weighing it as you fill it. Maybe practice on some busted shafts. Cut them to see how far the filling went in. Then put the insert in. I would think it would make the shaft stronger from the inside out.

O.L. Adcock · « **Reply #52 on:** February 07, 2009, 11:48:00 PM »

"What about filling the front end of the arrow with caulking or silicone or something alittle more rubberized for weight."

That would add weight but wouldn't stop inserts being shoved into the shaft or breaking behind the insert on angled shots....O.L.

Dave Bulla · « **Reply #53 on:** February 08, 2009, 12:31:00 AM »

O.L.,

I've just figured it out! Hee hee.... kinda.

Lone archers post did the trick. You need to find a way to make JB weld foam up! Like expanding window insulation. Squirt about two inches of "expando-weld" in behind the head and stand the arrow up vertically with the point down. The trick is to get the JB to stay solid for about the first inch and expand about 4 more inches up the shaft with more and more "foam" as you get to the top of the column. More foam equals less density and more flex with gradually decreasing weight and stiffness from point to end of the "foot".

Well, I'm being kinda a smart alec about it with the JB comments but if you could come up with something that would seperate in layers or naturally change density between solid at the front and soft at the rear it would work I think.

Now just run along and invent it eh?.

Jay Campbell JD · « **Reply #54 on:** February 08, 2009, 08:07:00 AM »

OL: Good to see you out and about!

I think the Buffalo arrows Karen and I used two years ago did this well. We used Gold Tip big game 100s, and assembled a front end insert that began with the stos head and 125 grain adapter, then the arrow insert and 200 grains of brass weights, then a 15 inch carbon piece that reached to the midpoint of the arrow. With roughing of all surfaces and cleaning with detergent, then alcohol, and leaving surfaces wet, I then swabbed the entire inside surface of the arrow with gorilla glue (it is chemically activated and cured by water), then pushed in the carbon insert with the head assembly, and let cure point down with a boot over the fletched end.

Those arrows were (and are) bomb proof. FOC 24%. Weight 1020 grains, but that formula can be made to work with light arrows as well. Took two buffalo, one arrow kills.

I tried wood inserts, but the work to sand and the variable weight bothered me. Hope this helps. - Jay Campbell, JD

Jay Campbell JD · « **Reply #55 on:** February 08, 2009, 09:07:00 AM »

Now that I go back over my math, those carbon shaft inserts were 12.5", not 15". Designed to reach midpoint. - Jay Campbell, JD

O.L. Adcock · « **Reply #56 on:** February 08, 2009, 10:36:00 AM »

Hey Jay, no doubt lots of ways to skin the cat!

The gorilla glue would retain some flexable properties. Your carbon insert is great but you'll find shaft sizes with no "off the shelf" carbon rod size will fit, we're back to sanding and grinding and weight variations. Take that arrow and get an angled ball joint hit, or a rock out stumping, you've still got a weak spot at the end of that rod, you just haven't exceeded it yet!

Plus a lot of mass. Try getting high FOC's and tough arrows to come in at 500-600 grains, that's the hard part....O.L.

b.glass · « **Reply #57 on:** February 08, 2009, 12:18:00 PM »

Can anyone suggest a good epoxy that is accessable in the U.S.?

Jason Jelinek · « **Reply #58 on:** February 08, 2009, 03:00:00 PM »

G2 is pretty good, used for bow making, but it's strong and flexible.

wisconsin wood butcher · « **Reply #59 on:** February 08, 2009, 03:12:00 PM »

O.L i don't know what your wood arrow description did for Dave.but my arrow building ideas are going thanks .I'm gonna try these carbon ideas too.


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