Arrows??????????

[xtrema312]

Ok I think I have a bow lined up and hope to have it in a week or so.  I have all the miscellaneous stuff I need to get started shooting except arrows.  I need a lot of help with arrows.  

I have good basic knowledge of tuning and I have no issues setting up compounds and paper tuning for great long range broad head accuracy.  Trad bow tuning sounds a little harder due to them not being center shot and I am sure a couple other issues.  When I was a kid shooting recurves I had fits with broad head flight and bare shaft tuning.  Particular by looking at arrow angle in the target.  I reading OL Adcock’s info and plan to go that direction on bare shaft tuning.

The bow I hope to get has 45 and 50# @28" limbs.  I can shoot 50 reasonable, but plan to use the lighter limbs to work on form this winter and spring.  

Can I tune a set of shafts for hunting at 50# and shot them for practice with reasonable success with the 45# limbs?  I am thinking I can just maybe up the point weight and weaken the spine to for the 45’s if needed.  Is that right and a good way to go, or would it not be that critical?  Would it be better to stay with a lighter arrow for the 45’s to try and keep about the same POI of a heavier arrow tuned for the 50’s?

I went to carbon on the compounds years ago and would never shoot aluminum in them again.  Shoot an arrow a few thousand times and kill a half dozen deer with it and still have it perfectly tuned and in the quiver and you’re a believer.  I would like to use carbon on the new bow, but from my reading so far I question if that is the best way to go right now.  I don’t want to shoot real light shaft and give up penetration or give up having my bow quiet, but I do want to not go any heavier than necessary for hunting deer.  A carbon shaft equal in weight to the aluminum shaft I would shoot would be nice.  I don’t want to mess with all that weighting shafts stuff unless it is a rather simple process.  I have read there are some better trad carbon shafts out there, but I am not sure which are the ones to use and why.  What are they and is it reasonably easy to work with them, or should I just go to aluminum?

One more wrinkle is that if possible I would like to shoot 125 heads because they are so much easier to get local.  It is not critical, but if I can find a combo that will work with carbon and 125’s that would be ideal, I think.

Ok sorry for the long post.  Let the comments fly.
 

[vtmtnman]

Easton FMJ carbons,brass insert,125gr head.

That would be my idea.The experts will chime in shortly.

[R H Clark]

What's your draw length?
How heavy an arrow do you want?
What bow will you be shooting?Will it have FF string?

I would stay with carbon if you like them already.There should be no reason you can't tune some carbons.Which carbons to choose depends a lot on the above questions.

[xtrema312]

On a couple of the measurement methods I was 28".  I pulled one of those test bows with the scaled arrow in it last weekend and pulled 27 1/2". I was in a hurry when I stopped and did it, and I am not sure I hit my anchor the best.  I am sure it is somewhere between 27 ½ and 28”.

I don't want an arrow any heavier than reasonably needed for a quiet bow and good penetration on deer.  I am still reading up and trying to get a good handle on the weight and FOC concepts for trad archery.  I am not quite sure where I should be so need some help with that also.

Predator TD with I think a standard string, and I think that is a Dynaflight (D97).

[Traditional-Archer]

xtrema312
wow thats a mouth full but here we go.
@ 28" draw a 30" 31" arrow would work most likely, My arrows @ 28 3/8" are 586 Grain I have a 27" draw shooting left of center not sure how much I'm shooting 55/75 goldtip traditionals right now, 100 grain brass insert 200 grain razorcaps up front that gives me 25% FOC that not to bad, but I am working on that. the arrow fly awsome of my tip. you could go to the traditional goldtip 35/55, 50 or 100 grain brass insert, that would be a good place to start.

Go to the sponsers list at top of any PG go to O.L's web sight,  there will be all you can read and he can help get you started on the spine work and FOC as well.

If you want a good FOC and go with a goldtip arrow I would start with a 55/75, 35/55 spine will work but I think you will not get much FOC but could probably use a aluminum insert and a 125 grain insert and still make 7 to 8 gpi around 500g hope that helps

[xtrema312]

How do the inserts work with carbon shafts?  My inserts in my compound shafts glue in and don't come out like my aluminum arrow shafts did with adhesives that could be heated.  Do they have adhesive that allow removal of these inserts or is there a system that allows changing them? I guess that goes for working with a carbon shaft when working out the length and cutting them down.

[LONGBOWKID]

I shoot CX Thunderstorms in a 40# and 48# R-D longbow, with no difference in flight.

I would suggest CX 90'S, or the 30-50's (same shaft, 90's are heavier due to wood grain coating).

[KentuckyTJ]

Gold Tip 3555's with 100 grain brass inserts. I shoot the same arrow's out of three recurves, 50lb, 54lb and a 56lb bow. You will love them.

[frassettor]

Try the Ad shafts...Shoot everything from a 40#-75# bow no problem

[Paul Mattson]

The Arrow Dynamic's are great shafts.  I have had some great reviews from customers on how they can be shot from various bow wts.

   

"I don’t want to mess with all that weighting shafts stuff.."  

Do they have adhesive that allow removal of these inserts or is there a system that allows changing them?

All you need to do is us 100 grn brass inserts with the AD's, very simple.  To remove them, all you need to do is heat up a screw in point some and pull it out along with the insert.  Heat it up just hot enuff, that it is hot to the touch.

[xtrema312]

It is good to know you can remove the inserts with an adhesive you can heat.  I know that was not the case with the way my inserts were glued into my Beman ICS hunter shafts.  It sounds like carbon tuning is not that much different than aluminum as long as I get in the right ball park on the insert and shaft weight.

Doing some back checking it looks like Gold Tips get a lot of use.  Why is that?

What are the shaft diameters of all these?  Are they a larger shaft size more like what I would have with aluminum or are they a smaller size like I would get with something I would shoot from a compound?  Are there any pro’ or con’s with any of them as far a price, durability, shaft size, weight or ease to tune?  How about arrow weights will these in the 29-30” length range with the insert and 125 point get me about 10g per pound of draw?  I am thinking 10g per # is reasonable all around for deer hunting, but still researching.  I will do some digging, but if anyone has this info handy I would appreciate it.

[trapperDave]

you can also drop a drill bit in the shaft and "whip it" a few times to nock the old inserts out.

carbons are 5/16" unless you go with the really skinny ones.

GT's tend to be most affordable.

[Paul Mattson]

The Carbon Shafts are  the same as you would use with your compound.  Some of so called Trads have wood grain finish on them.  To get them to where you want them in wt, you will need to add a 100 grn brass insert.  For instance the AD Trad lites weigh 9.5 gpi @ 30"= 285+100grn insert = 385 + 125grn point = 510grns.  This puts you where you want to be.

[Traditional-Archer]

Some will say, Arrow Dynamic's, some goldtips others Grizlystik's, all are good arrows. Arrow Dynamic arrows I believe are 145+$ a doz Grizlystik's are 90$ a half doz goldtips 110$ a doz, that is a rough estimate but close, all are about the same I believe as far as tuning work goes. I will say goldtips were pretty easy for me to tune, I am working on some grizlystiks right now. If I were to break it down, I think you could start with a goldtip 55/75 @ 30 " start with a 100g insert use hot clue, you can heat it up and it will come out easy enough, with a 125g broad head it will most likely work but it is hard to say. You could buy three unfletched arrows and three fletched. Or you could go to three rivers and order one of their test kits, then go from there.
You are going to have a hard time trying to match an arrow using someone else's setup, because you do not know if the bow is center cut, cut left or right of center. That is were you will have to use the weight up front to fix any fine tuning problems you will have. Bare shafting or using wide broad heads will be best to find the right arrow for you setup when you get you bow; just remember to have fun with working it out because you will get it. You will learn as you go and understand more about tuning than you might think

[xtrema312]

I am going to check at the archery shop near my home.  It is small, but they are good.  It is not a trad shop, but one of the owners used to do a lot of trad shooting, and I shot his widow a couple times.  I will see what they have for shafts and point weights.  Then I can go from there to pick some shaft to get started.  I would like to give the business to the local guys if possible.

What is the minimum number of bare and fletched shafts I need for group bare shaft testing?  Can I get by with two each and shoot enough groups to work it out or is more better?

Other than for looks what is the best all around feather type to use and size?  I assume shield and parabolic are basically a looks preference.  How about length 4” or 5” for broad heads?  I use 4” parabolic helical now with great results on carbon in the compound, but I am not sure on the trad bow.  

Last question for this post, how about distance between fletch and nock?  Is there a basic distance or minimum recommendation? Is a inch about right?
Thanks for the help.

[SCATTERSHOT]

Tune for the lighter weight limbs, and then you can shoot the same arrows from the heavier weight by building out the sideplate on the bow. No need to change points or anything.

[Traditional-Archer]

SCATTERSHOT, has a point but side plate adjustments may not be the best option, because when you go to the heavy limbs, you may have to take the shim out or use a different arrow spine. If the local shops cant help with the materials you may need the sponser here at tradgang they will be glad to help.

Question one,three or more is best or you could shoot ten rounds let say and take an average from all, just make sure you shoot both non-fletched and fletched arrows and compare the resolts you want your bare shafts to be a little weak and low I believe "check it out on O.L's sight" the diagram on his sight makes it so clear.
Question two, arrow fletch size? the more FOC you have acording to recent studys the smaller the fletching you can get away with,Doc has some threads out there to read on that. one thing to remember from the studs are that the smaller fletchings are noticeably quieter.

Question three, nock" I do not think the feathers space matters, but I'm not to sure. I think all you need is room for your fingers to clear while you draw with your fingers on the string.  

[xtrema312]

Originally posted by KentuckyTJ:
Gold Tip 3555's with 100 grain brass inserts. I shoot the same arrow's out of three recurves, 50lb, 54lb and a 56lb bow. You will love them.

Looking at the exp hunters they are .006 straightness 7.4 gr per inch and the least expensive shafts about $60.  How about those?

Trad hunters are not bad and .003 or .006 8.6 gr. Per inch and about $75.  How does the finish hold up on these?

How big of a deal is the straightness for trad arrows and instinctive shooting?

I am thinking with a 125 head, 100 insert, knock, and feathers I probably need the 8.6 grp per inch to get to 500 gr.  

I found the knocks and inserts. Are the gold tip knocks good for trad arrows or do the hold too tight?  I didn't see different types other than the standard and locking.

I found the inserts. I don't see the 100 gr. inserts listed anywhere.  I did find a 110 gr. for the bolts.  I only see the screw on weights.  Still looking.

[R H Clark]

I shoot .001 straight arrows.For me it's a competition mental thing.I don't want to be second guessing arrows on the target stake.In all honesty though I can't tell the difference when shooting between the .001 and .006 shafts.

The Gt nocks are fine.It's more critical to serve your string to fit whatever nocks you shoot.

The wood grain finish is very durable.

I would think 3 Rivers has brass inserts.

[Shawn Leonard]

I would go with a Heritage 150 cut to 29"s and for the 50# limbs shoot 200-225 up front and for the 45#ers shoot 325 up front, ya could also shoot a carbonwood 200 with 150-175 up front for the 50#ers or 225-250 up front for the 45#ers. I owned a Predator once that was around 50#s and the 2000 will tune for both sets of limbs. Shawn