350 up front?

[Featherbuster]

I was reading and wondering how long it take Mr. Adcock to chime in to correct some things (FOC and arrow weight).  

Thank you sir        

[Gehrke145]

I don't think we are talking the same shaft with different tips.  I don't think you could get the same shaft to tune with a 125 or a 300 grains up front.  At least I can't, O.L. Adcocks thread about the perfect arrow is a must read!!!!!!!!

[Mo. Huntin]

[Danny Rowan]

I shoot 400 gr up front on my Ad Trads, I shoot out to 30 yards and they are perfect for me out of my 60# bows.

Danny

[Bob Morrison]

525 grain total arrow, 300 grain point. I just started playing with the lighter shaft. I'll take this setup anyday over 525 w/ 125 gr head. Until you hit bone, penetration is not a problem with any sharp BH.

[elknut1]

Bob, my question is, what do you consider to be bone robbing penetration hits?
  I agree 125 is a bit light. I like 165grn plus but really nothing over 200grn give or take a few grains! Arrow of use is irrelevant to me, as long as it's tuned to your draw weight & setup & doesn't porpoise to the target loosing valuable penetrating energy!
  Head weight is necessary to a degree, I like the best of both worlds. I want a stable arrow with respectable punch with a razor sharp head.
  To me, respectable punch is acquired according to each individuals draw & setup. A 550 grain arrow out of my 56# longbow tipped with 165-200grn 3-bladed head will penetrate any bone on an elk where vitals are on the other side out to 35 yards on doable shot angles. This would include quartering to you frontal shots to broadside shots to quartering away shots.
  A balanced outlook is needed to entertain various angles & distances, this can keep trajectory in balance & not be overboard one way or another!

  If all shots were 20 yards & under & from treestands, then I can see excessive head weight being under control with minimum trajectory & great penetration. But for all around elk hunting perspective one needs a setup closer to what I've mentioned to keep all avenues open & increase his odds of success, yet not sacrifice penetration or trajectory issues!
  With these thoughts, one can hunt game such as deer & elk with total confidence! Head choice is a personal decision.

  ElkNut1

[snag]

I shoot CE 250s which are about equivalent to #84. So, it tunes well with a total of 225gr. upfront. (I'm shooting a 55#@28" recurve) So, are you guys saying to put 300+gr. on the tip of a lighter AND stiffer shaft? What would you recommend for this? I'll give it a try.

[DanDaMan]

For me, 275 to 300 grains up front flys well.  I look at things this way, I want the absolute heaviest shaft I can shoot in the 170 fps range because that is a trajectory that I shoot well.  I would like to shoot even more front of center but my current arrows shoot well with 275 up front for a 620gr arrow zipping at 176-178fps from my horne.  More would be nice, but this is what works for now.
Dan

[O.L. Adcock]

Elknut1, "Head weight is necessary to a degree, I like the best of both worlds. I want a stable arrow with respectable punch with a razor sharp head."

You make it sound like there is a trade off there...There isn't...Out of a 55# bow, following your recomendations, which would be better, a 550 grain arrow with 15% FOC or a 550 with 25%?...Same tuning of course....

More FOC means more stable...More FOC means more punch...There is no trade off, only a persons ability to put together a tuneable combination...O.L.

[Bowana]

I shoot 350 gr up front on Beman 340's, 28 3/4" long. I use 5" feathers and it shoots great. Bare shafts shoot right with the fletch ones out to about 30 yards. This is out of a 56# longbow.

[Rob Fin]

Am I calculating FOC correctly? I shoot 30" 2018's. Shaft weight is 12.31gr/inch which equals 369gr for a 30" arrow. Nock and feathers are about 5 grains. With 125gr points, 19gr insert, 10gr adapter, and 30gr weight, that gives me 184gr up front. Total arrow weight is 558gr.

My 184gr up front, plus 95 grains will give me 279gr, which is exactly half of my arrow weight. If I go back from my point exactly 7.7" (or 95 grains worth of shaft weight) I will be at my mathematical balance point of the arrow (equal weight on either side of this location on the shaft). This location is 7.7" behind the point, or 7.3" ahead of the center of the 30" arrow. 7.3" is 24.3% of 30", meaning that the arrow has a 24.3% FOC.

Am I calculating this correctly?

[swampbuck]

Oddly enuff I've shot a bunch of carbon arrow set ups from 450-660+grs 125-250 up front and bothe the 150,s and the 250's and they ALL fly pretty dang good for me.I shot side by side a 29.5"250 with 125 up front and a 30" 150 with 145 up front from 20 yrds both hit the 5 spot and didn't apear to wiggle.

I've gotten bare shafts to fly mint with both 125 and 250 grain tips on the same arrow from the same bow with very little adjustment to the side plate or NP to tweak it

I like the heavy tip since my home made heads are 250grs and they seem quieter...slower too so I guess out beyond 30yrds it may make a differance but around 20 it don't matter

by the way 450grs from a 57# LB blows right thru a whitetail same as 660grs at least they did for me

[snag]

So, if I am shooting a carbon that is weighing 10gr/in as a bare shaft and has an equivalent spine of around 84# with 225gr up front do I then need to go up in spine weight to around 90+# with a shaft that is 8gr/in or less in order to add another 125gr. up front?  How's that for a sentence...?  I have been happy with the CE shafts...any recommendations?

[Gehrke145]

I find myself checking this thread all the time now lol.  I shoot axis shafts (love them) but not alot of options to go to a lighter shaft.  Now has anyone done testing with a FOC arrow (on standard carbon) against an axis that has a lower FOC?  My axis 400 29 inchs BOP with 250 up front shattered the femur on my follow up shot on a cow elk.  Now this is my heavy set, I also shoot a axis 500 with a 150 grain tip 28 BOP( I shoot this one better).  Now if I can get a better penetrating arrow and pick up some speed I'm all for it.

[metsastaja]

Snag
I am shooting a recure 54@28 with the CE250's
I used a 100gn insert for the bareshaft and the fletched arrows. Finished weight of arrow,fletch and nock is 460gn without any point.

I don't know how or why but adding tip weights of 125,145,175 and finally 225grain does not seem to effect arrow flight that I can detect out to 20 yards. Bareshaft and Fletched maintain a 5 inch group.

Question for all

So is the 100grain insert part of arrow weight or upfront weight?
AM I shooting an arrow that weighs 360 or 460
If its arrow weight then my setup is a 460g shaft and 225point. If is upfront weight then I have a shaft of 360g and a tip weight of 325.
Either way the FOC is about 21%
Now I am confused. One thing I know is the arrows are flying great for me.  IS 685gn too heavy for a 54# bow?

[Gehrke145]

Its the up front weight.

[elknut1]

O.L.---I've never thought about it that way!!! That's just short of a stroke of genius there!! (grin) You & I could get along just fine!! Now that's using some common sense. I have a whole new outlook there. I will definitely try some various aluminum combination's to achieve the same weight yet trying out heavier heads. Thanks a ton for helping me see the light! (grin)

  ElkNut1

[BUCKY]

Just calculated my FOC,26.7.Is this extreme?Like I said my arrows are flying great.I also can't believe I haven't been flamed for saying I'm not going to bare shaft.I'm making up more arrows and will shoot alot this weekend.Sunday my buddy Tom (Bentpole)will join me so he can witness this.

[metsastaja]

I broke out my pro chrono this afternoon and shot 225 and 325 up front hunting setups.  There was a 10 FPS difference the 325 being 10fps slower. The shots were taken about 5 feet away from the chrono.

[bentpole]

Bucky and I had some time today. We put the arrows threw the test both bareshafted and with feathers. I had a Gold Tip 35/55 without feathers cut 28"s.I draw 27"s. The arrows flew great. Slightly slower than my 190/250 grain heads granted, but they didn't drop like I figured they would. The bow I was shooting was 47#s. Bucky's bow was quieter with the heavy heads. They did hit like a ton of bricks. I guess it's up to the archer if you want to go to this extreme. But they did fly very well.