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Author Topic: What are things you don't want to hear from a outfitter when booking a hunt  (Read 848 times)

Offline overbo

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Bouncing around the Harrisburg show talking to outfitters and boy did I get a ear full.When booking a hunt.Tell me what are the negatives you look for out a outfitters mouth.

Offline mooseman76

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guaranteed hunt, 100%, bowhunt? sure we can get you within 60 yards.  Just some of the things I heard yesterday while talking to different outfitters...Mike

Offline hormoan

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Make sure your life insurance is up to date  :scared:  

All kidding aside, they are all salesmen. Expect no less, only good advice I can give is. Once you think you have made a choice, that fits your needs. Make sure you get a large list of past clients. Half a dozen is not enough. Call a lot of them and get there input. With what there experience was. Biggest problems I see experienced and friends have had is. The outfitters guides in camp, that you actually hunt with. That is the biggest downfall, you get stuck with a greenhorn know it all. THAT DON'T

Remember that guy at the show, is probably not the guy you will hunt with  :campfire:

Online ron w

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You hunt with a "WHAT", a long bow! And how close do you have to be? ..... Hear it all the time!
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's there are few...So the most difficult thing is always to keep your beginner's mind...This is also the real secret of the arts: always be a beginner.  Shunryu Suzuki

Offline Dave Bulla

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"Well, I can get ya'll a cull buck for $XXX or if you want to specify a P&Y class, that'll cost ya'll $X,XXX.  Now if ya'll want a booner, it'll cost $XX,XXXX plus $XX amount for every inch over 170."

Or "Here are pictures of the deer we have to offer.  Which one do you want?"
Dave


I've come to believe that the keys to shooting well for me are good form, trusting the bow to do all the work, and having the confidence in the bow and myself to remain motionless and relaxed at release until the arrow hits the mark.

Offline Bjorn

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If they are at a show they are probably not the ones you want to book a trip with anyway.
I asked one 'highly recommended' Elk guide what his success rate was, 75% he said. Turns out any Elk he called to within 100 yds was a 'success'.
OK then; when was the last time an archer killed an animal you called in? After a lot of crap talk, finally, 1999 was the answer! 10 years no success!!
I am not making this up.

Offline Gehrke145

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Ontario Canada you'll get a 300lbs bear no prob....

Offline A.S.

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I'm with Bjorn on this one. If the outfitter is at one of these shows, I would shy away from them to begin with....just me.

I have always used a booking agent like Bowhunting Safari Consultants. They will book an outfitter for you that meets YOUR needs (i.e.  traditional). If they ever have a real problem with an outfitter, they quit booking for them---it's that simple. You don't pay a penny more for their service than if you booked with the outfitter they set you up with directly.

Call them up or shoot them an email, tell them what you are looking for, and they can give you their options.

You won't be disappointed.

Offline Stinger

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I disagree with Bjorn and A.S.  These shows give you an opportunity to comparrison shop on a scale that you just can't get elsewhere.  You also have the opportunity to interact with the outfitter in person vice over the phone or internet.  Relying on personal references is fine, but being able to talk in person with a prospective outfitter is invaluable.  Two years ago I went to that show in Harrisburg PA and interviewed over 25 different outfitters in depth for a trophy whitetail hunt.  Another 20 I stopped talking with just 5 - 10 minutes into the conversation.  I went with a prepared set of questions.  When it came down to it in the end I selected the one that I was most comfortable with.  I discounted most of those that promised a high success rate.  Actually, most talk about an opportunity rate.  I was careful to make them tell me what consitituted an opportunity.  I think I'm a pretty good judge of character and I can do that in person.  It's tough to do that over the phone or rely on a third part who doesn't know you to do it for you.  The big flashy outfits from Pike County didn't impress me much because it all seemed like hype.  I chose a smaller outfit that had only been up and running for 3 years.  The outfitter was honest and genuine.  They had 15,000 acres of leased land that had been managed for at least 10 years and they only took 40 hunters a year.  I wasn't disappointed.  My brother and I both took nice 140+ bucks.  Go prepared and listen carefully to what they tell you.

Offline LKH

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With the depressed economy, these guys are stressed and I think you'll hear what they think you want to hear.  

There are many good outfitters that go to the shows.  Clients come and go and they need to replenish.

Offline Brian Krebs

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Re: What are things you don't want to hear from a outfitter when booking a hunt
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2009, 08:53:00 PM »
"We don't have room to bring the bear bait on the plane; so you decide who won't be needing their bow."
THE VOICES HAVEN'T BOTHERED ME SINCE I STARTED POKING THEM WITH A Q-TIP.

Online Adirondack Bowman

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Re: What are things you don't want to hear from a outfitter when booking a hunt
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2009, 09:16:00 PM »
Most of the outfitters at these shows will tell you anything you want to hear. Be careful. Good luck.

Offline Tocs

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Re: What are things you don't want to hear from a outfitter when booking a hunt
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2009, 08:56:00 AM »
There are plenty of good outfitters that market their business's at outdoor shows.The well established excellent one's likely will not have to do as many or any shows because of repeat bookings and strong referrals from happy clients.
I have been on two guided hunts that were both poor experiences many years ago.I am completely DIY now and don't expect that to change any time soon.
If I were to use an outfitter again,as a result of the experiences I have had I am pretty confidant that I would be able to vastly increase my odds at having a good experience.
Things like not being able to book for one or two years in advance is always a positive,getting the full list of all the outfitters clients for your intended hunt for the last two years with addresses and phone numbers,so you can mail them all a letter and contact as many of them by phone as you care to.Speaking with their outfitters and guides association and the Fish and Game department in their area's,specifically about things like winter kill and the abundance of game in the units you will be hunting in.Wanting to know who will be guiding you and having the opportunity to speak with him or her.
In a lot of ways I am thankful that I am a DIYer because it is all up to me,and I prefer that but there are solid guides out there.
The biggest mistake I had made years ago was being naive and trusting,assuming one of "our own" wouldn't lie to me.Just like one of "our own" wouldn't swipe a tree stand from us.Certain lessons come hard!

Offline sswv

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Re: What are things you don't want to hear from a outfitter when booking a hunt
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2009, 09:36:00 AM »
I've been a booking agent for outdoor adventure travel for a good while. sold my first hunt in 1989. I've worked the PA show along with others and I have to agree with most guys here. you will hear it all. my advice is to contact as many hunters as possible that have actually hunted with said outfitter. booking a hunt on the spot with an outfitter at a show is risky. get their brochure (get lot's of brochures) and then do lot's of research. in my business either myself or my business partner have been ourselves, or know someone very reliable that have been with every outfitter in our system. bottom line...do your homework and get LOT'S of referrals. if a hunter had a good trip he/she won't mind telling you all about it. if the hunt was bad, then you'll know in a hurry.

jus my 2cents

Offline overbo

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Re: What are things you don't want to hear from a outfitter when booking a hunt
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2009, 01:32:00 PM »
I was talking about when you first meet the outfitter and I'm talking more specific.Example:ATV's to take you to and from stand.

Offline ishiwannabe

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Re: What are things you don't want to hear from a outfitter when booking a hunt
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2009, 01:39:00 PM »
"We never did find that one fella"  Sorry...had to.  :D
"I lost arrows and didnt even shoot at a rabbit" Charlie after the Island of Trees.
                         -Jamie

Offline Biggie Hoffman

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Re: What are things you don't want to hear from a outfitter when booking a hunt
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2009, 02:06:00 PM »
" You'll have to be in good shape to do this"
PBS Life Member
Member 1K LLC

"If you are twenty and aren't liberal you don't have a heart...if you're forty and not conservative you don't have a brain".....Winston Churchill

Offline amar911

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Re: What are things you don't want to hear from a outfitter when booking a hunt
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2009, 02:09:00 PM »
It depends on what show you are at as to whether the highest quality outfitters will be showing up. The Dallas Safari Club Convention and the International Safari Club Convention (in Reno) attract many of the best (and often most expensive) outfitters from around the world. You can get (and will pay for) the greatest hunts available anywhere. The best ones have gobs of references, and many of their former customers will be hanging around their booths talking and booking future hunts too. Give the outfitters you mobile phone number and they can call you when former customers come to their booths. Then you can talk to those customers in person about the hunts.

Most of the SCI people are gun hunters. Many of them are also bow hunters, but of the bow hunters only a small percentage shoot trad bows. The outfitters cater to the people who actually buy their hunts, so naturally most of the outfitters guide gun hunters with a lesser number of compound bow hunters and very few trad bow hunters. The most common reaction I get to questions about trad bow hunting is that it will be very difficult to get within 30 yards, much less 20 yards, and the success percentage will be very low compared to the gun hunting. That may not be what I want to hear, but it is the truth, so I'm glad they are saying it.

I just watched Easton Bowhunting TV last night and saw Fred Eichler shoot a big Yukon moose on the second day of his hunt in the Yukon using what is think is his Palmer 54# recurve. It looked like a pretty long shot, but the camera lens can make the distance appear deceiving. The bull went down in about 60 yards, so obviously it was a very good shot. I am not the hunter Fred is, so I wouldn't necessarily have made the shot or had his level of success. Still, it is nice to see the possibilities. Those hunts are expensive -- like about $20,000, so if you book one, you sure want to have a good chance to actually take a moose.

What is it that I hate to hear most about a really good hunt? The PRICE!!!!!!!!! But on some hunts you either pay the money or you don't go. There is no DYI for US citizens in the Yukon. That part of the world is extremely remote. It costs the outfitter a ton of money to set up and equip his camps during the brief hunting seasons. He can only accommodate a few hunters every year. And he needs to make a profit so he can support his family and have the incentive to keep the hunting operation going. Those guys aren't making lots of money. They do it mostly for the lifestyle. Those hunts are simply very expensive for everyone, and the hunter has to pay to make it happen. The same is true for hunting in other remote areas of the world.

There are lots of much less expensive hunts, and some that are much more expensive than $20,000. The really good outfitters are often booked up far in advance, but even they have cancellations, especially in this economy. I have found that one of the best ways to get a good discount on a hunt is to get on the waiting list of a really good outfitter and then be willing and able to accept a hunt within two weeks of the day it starts. Not many people can do that, which is why the outfitter can give the discount. The hunter who booked the hunt will lose some or all of his deposit and the outfitter will discount things on his side too in order to defray his expenses.

The really good outfitted hunts cost a bunch, but there is no reason to save a little and get a crappy hunt that wasn't worth even what you paid for it. There are plenty of places to go for good, inexpensive "ranch" style hunts. They don't cost too much and are a lot of fun. Most of my hunts are just local rabbit, squirrel, deer, turkey, hog, varmint hunts with my buddies that don't cost much at all. But if you want a "hunt of a lifetime", a good outfitter who is going to be expensive is the best way to go for most of us. The big, expensive hunts are unbelievably exciting and provide an experience that will create memories and stories that will be with you as long as you live. But they come at a price that many will be unable or unwilling to afford.

Stinger and Tocs have it right on there being good outfitters at the best of the outdoor shows and conventions. Booking agents can also be a big help, like SSWV suggests. If anyone wants the names of some of the top booking agents (whose hunts are usually expensive, and for good reason) send me a PM and I will list a few of my favorites.

Allan
TGMM Family of the Bow

Offline dagwood64

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Re: What are things you don't want to hear from a outfitter when booking a hunt
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2009, 03:49:00 PM »
"Huh...look at that the sun is setting in the East, again"   :bigsmyl:  

Duane
DEER THE OTHER RED MEAT!

62" Sasquatch T/D Hybrid 47@28
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64" Flatliner Stealth 45@29
64" Thunderstick III 55@29, for now.
60" Big Rock Black Hunter 35/40@28 (Daughter's)

Sirach 2:1-11

Offline joe skipp

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Re: What are things you don't want to hear from a outfitter when booking a hunt
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2009, 05:26:00 PM »
"You'll see more P&Y bucks in 3 days here then you will in a year back in New York...we just have to make sure we keep the gate locked at night and the electric fence is working properly."   :saywhat:
"Neal...is this heaven?" "No Piute but we are dam close". Top of the Mtn in Medicine Bow Nat Forest.

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