What are things you don't want to hear from a outfitter when booking a hunt

[wingnut]

I don't want to hear stories about the idiot bowhunters he's had come hunt with him.  And how every hunter that wasn't happy, was the hunters fault.

When you take on the responsibilty to call yourself an outfitter, well you take on the responsibility to comunicate with the client and meet the clients needs.

Mike

[macbow]

" You only need to book a two day hunt. The first day we'll drive up and you shoot the deer. You'll be in the bar by evening"

Really heard this from a high fence Mo. outfitter.
Ron

[jonsimoneau]

"You ever kill anything with that wooden bow?"  "Bring a gun just in case"

In case of what?

[Ray Hammond]

I don't know about that...but I can tell you one thing an outfitter/guide doesn't want to hear from a hunter-

" This elk hunt is NUTHIN' like the MONSTER BULLS videos I watch from Realtree".

True story....a Virginia bowhunter showed up with brand new boots he'd never worn, and didn't shoot an elk the first day so that's what he told us at dinner the first night.

The second day he complained about his blisters all day.

Third day through the end of the hunt, he sat in a treestand over a waterhole no elk came to all week, because we had record rainfall.

Only, a monster bull did show up on the last day- he missed it.

[PAPA BEAR]

i was at the other end of the spectrum on this issue..i was the guide and the outfitter promised the hunters all book bulls in archery range,luckily big bulls were falling out of the trees that year.but just remember the outfitter just wants to sell you a hunt...after that you don't matter to him anymore.(most of the time) VERY IMPORTANT....CHECK REFERENCES AS STATED. thats your only chance at getting your monies worth.

[Steve71]

I have been an outfitter for 15 yrs i always use shows to promote my business.ALWAYS I MEAN ALWAYS get alist of his references tell him you want both sucessful hunters and ones that didn't kill.Any outfitter worth his salt will has a big list.Never I mean never book at a show. DO YOUR HOMEWORK IT IS WAY TO EPENSIVE TO THROW YOUR MONEY AWAY ON A CROOK.

[Mo. Huntin]

The hogs have been a little nocturnal lately.  We are actually closing this ranch down and moving to another one you guys are the last ones hunting here. The outfitters 11 year old boy asks us what we are hunting for, hogs we said, good luck he says as he laughs ( seriously).  When we pull in at 9:00PM the outfitters girlfriend runs out of the house screaming he is a crook and steals money from little girls.  All at the same ranch I even called the guy 3 times to check on the hunting before we came and he never mentioned nocturnal not once.

[Vig]

I'd check on the actual number of hunters... If they boast a low number then you find out there are actually 50% more, it can be a little frustrating.  Especially if the "guide" is doing all the killing!

[Whip]

I would want to know who my actual guide will be and have a chance to talk directly with the guide.  Most outfitters won't be able to tell you that because they turn over from year to year.  But based on past experience I will never book a hunt again unless I know who I will be walking in the woods with.  A good outfitter with a great camp and fine food cannot overcome a guide who doesn't have a clue.  

Most outfitters don't know from year to year who their guides will be.  Often they are someone who just happens to be out of work at the time and sign on for the fall.  

I've done two fairly expensive guided hunts.  On both trips there were guides in camp who were in the hunting area for the first time in their life.  On one, the guide had hunted moose himslef before, but had never guided anyone.

Leason learned - get the name of the guide.  Have it written into your contract who your guide will be.  Most outfitters can't do that for you, so I have sworn off most guided hunts for my future.  I'm not going to lay out thousands of dollars to follow an incompetent guide around the woods.

[Rick McGowan]

Its interesting to hear both sides of this story. ALL outfitters have to get their hunters from somewhere, that means you will find good and bad and everything in between at the tradeshows. I work at tradeshows for a living, all kinds, and I have been in marketing and been a guide. REGARDLESS of what business it is, there are bad sales people and some of those think that making the sale is the only thing that counts. If you think there are bad outfitters, you should guide for a while and meet some of the hunters! When calling references remember the hunter is NEVER going to say that he couldn't, walk, he couldn't shoot, he couldn't stalk, it was the guide and or outfitters fault! By all means get an extensive list of RECENT references, both sucessful and not. I have been given first time guides on two hunts also, but I actually PREFERRED it, in both cases the outfitter knew that I knew what I was doing and told the guide to just follow me around to make things legal. I don't know why it still surprises me, but it does, an outfitter, booking agent etc. can give a hunter a very specific list of how to prepare for a hunt and the hunter will totally ignore it, the hunter will come to a place they have never been to hunt an animal they have never hunted before and may never have even SEEN before, BUT they THINK, they know more about than the guide.
I can tell you one secret, why many outfitters do go to the shows, they have a policy of NEVER booking a hunter they haven't met and talked to in person for a while, hopefully that sorts out some of the worst yaahoos, so maybe the one thing you do not want to hear from an outfitter is, "ahh, I think we are all booked up".

[Whip]

I hear you Rick, and totally agree - there are probably far more bad hunters than there are bad guides.  The hunter is foolish to book a trip without being totally prepared himself.  In my experiences I don't really think I was asking too much though.  

I expected a guide to know the hunting area and how to get around in it.  

To be able to navigate back to the camp or vehicle without getting lost.  I've had a guide who didn't carry a compass or GPS and was terrified of getting lost.  

To take wind direction into account when trying to approach an area in which he expects to find animals or when setting up to call.  

To be able to walk somewhat quietly through the woods.  

To be in some sort of reasonable physical condition.  I had one guide who literally had to use his hands to lift his legs over deadfalls because he was so out of shape.

On a five day elk hunt once we were told hunting in the afternoons wasn't productive.  I'm sorry, but with only five days to hunt I expect to be out at least morning and evenings.  

I could go on, but basically I know now that I didn't do the homework I needed to do before booking the trips.

[Rick McGowan]

Absolutely there are bad guides and outfitters, but they are not around for very long, although that may be of little consolation if you get stuck with them. Unfortunately we hear lots about bad guides or outfitters, when in fact many times it was the hunters fault, but because of the unwritten rule,"never bad mouth the client", we usually only hear one side of the story and assume, that its the whole truth. That happens especially when its a well known hunting "personality", its a sad state of affairs when someones ego drives them to tell everything EXCEPT the truth about why they didn't take an animal.
Word of mouth is the best advertising its also the worse and its very easy to cost an outfitter or guide his livelyhood, by telling lies to save someones ego.

[Whip]

I also think far too much emphasis is placed on "success rates"  Outfitters often would prefer to talk about "opportunity rates" and that is probably a much fairer way to look at it.  If the hunter can't shoot, or is too out of shape to get to where they need to be, it is nobodys fault but the hunters.  Also, the hunter should not go into a hunt thinking that by paying their money they are entitled to kill an animal.  It should be a hunting trip, not a harvest trip, and the performance of the outfitter and/or guides should not be measured only by the kill.

[chrisg]

I have also guided and what Rick says is true as is what Whip says. I mean we should all be adult about things, if you lay out hard cash  you should not expect to coach the guide, but equally you should be properly prepared. Any outfitter will tell you about some of the real lulus. I once spent time in a joint venture not hunt guiding but big 5 walking. When the project was over I thought I would take my wife and be a paying client as it was a very nice place. When we arrived the head ranger welcomes us and then takes me aside and says " We have had a few changes and we have a couple of new guides, would you mind going with them, you know the reserve so well. Give them a bit of help and let me know what you think of them." I was a bit nonplussed but we were getting the private vehicle treatment at no extra charge so it might be fun, a working holiday. Well with the best will in the world I can only say the two were babes in the woods, and didn't know much at all, happily we did not meet any cross animals I doubt they had fired their rifles. But I have not given a finer guiding service to my wife and these two likable nonpaying hangers on had free training. I had one question,"Why did I have to pay full rates for the weekend?" People are strange.
chrisg

[Mike Gerardi]

[Rick McGowan]

In my experience and most guides and outfitters will tell you the same thing, if there is a problem with the guide or the outfitter or something else, TALK TO THEM ABOUT IT. Why do hunters go all the way through a hunt, without a single negative comment or suggestion and then go a tell all their buddies nothing, but bad stuff when they get home? I am talking about CONSTRUCTIVE critism or suggestions, because constant complaining, won't win anyone any friends in camp.

[Dave2old]

"Which flavor of freeze-dried meals do you prefer?"

[Killdeer]

Awright!
Now I can get the truck fixed!
   

[wingnut]

Rick,

Have you ever made the constructive critisim and have em turn on you.  I had it happen once years ago when I was on a moose / muledeer hunt in British Columbia.  The guide was brought in the day we got there from another area.  He'd never hunted with a bowhunter but was a moose guide.

The outfitter double booked the 10 day period and had high dollar rifle clients in for goats and moose.  He sent us with the second rate guy to the second rate area.

We saw 3 moose in 10 days of mostly riding in a truck.  When I suggested that we booked a horse back hunt for moose and deer, I got my lunch handed too me.

I tactfully explained the situation to the outfitter after he got back from the high county.  I shot a black bear on one of the last days and he hit me up for an additional fee.
Needless to say, I didn't pay it.

Sometimes the hunter is right and the outfitter just sticks it too em.

You gotta be careful anytime you book a hunt.

Mike

[Horner]

This one really hits home for me.  I booked a hunt for black bear in Maine 2 years ago.  I had been saving my money for years and really wanted to harvest or at least see a living wild black bear.  What can I say 2000.00 later and a week in a stand that had a wrong wind direction.  I saw 0 bears.  I did not say anything to them because I was told by one of the guides that, mouthy people in the past don't get the best stands.  I could go on and on about other things that went on there, but I wont.  The only good thing about this hunt was the food and that's sad.  I am saving up my money and hope to try it agin one day.  Here is my advice, high priced outfitters don,t always mean the best hunt.  I went with one of the most expensive outfitters in Maine and it stunk.  
Good luck out there,
Bryan Horner