unethical shots

[BTH]

Dragon, I've noticed the same thing at our 3D shoots. Trad shooters will say something like "what was the person who set this target up thinking?".
At our club shoots there are times I won't even score my card since I'm looking for the good shot instead of the one from the stakes.

[WIND WALKER]

I am in total agreement with AUTUMNARCHER,The angles and the distance they have set up at these 3d shoots just gives false positives.     HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I HEARD THIS!  IF THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A REAL DEER I WOULD HAVE KILLED HIM FOR SURE!

[La. bowhunter]

I sit and watch some of the shows and the biggest problem that I have is why dont they tell the truth when they screw up on a shot. I have seen pure gutshots and heard these guys talk about how it was such an awesome shot. Then you dont see a bloodtrail only them finding the animal and telling how good a job such and such broadhead did at killing this animal. I dont agree with the long range shots because I feel this causes a lot of the shots I am talking about but you would think they would learn from thier screw ups. But I guess the broadhead / bow /arrow companies dont pay as well if they dont kill something.

[fido dog]

This is a very good subject to me.

I am a newbie to the hunting world. I have never killed anything larger than a rabbit. I'm about to go on my first hunt ever and have been practicing and practicing to be able to take a good shot. I can't control wheather or not the animal is going to turn for a good shot, BUT I have the sense to not shoot unless I am SURE the animal has given me the opportunity and blessing of a clean, humane kill.

I have watched some of the big names hunt. I agree that the arrogance and a big bank-roll combined with cameras can really turn people off. I had no interest in hunting until I was in CO and my buddy (hunter) pulled off the side of the road to tend to a deer that was hit. We didn't hit it and everyone was driving by , but he had the respect and admiration of nature and his sport to pull the deer off to the side so she wouldn't be mangled.

Sorry for the babble.

[WIND WALKER]

Good luck fido dog on that first hunt!              I want to thank all these arrogant hunting shows because they were the biggest influence for me to take my wheels off and get back to hunting the way my father showed me how!

[NightHawk]

The problem with ETHICS is they are different for every person. I've sat here and read most of this thread shaking my head with disapproval. It's real easy to jump on the ethics band wagon and say everyone that doesn't do it my way ( 10-15 yards broadside) is unethical. God gave each of us a measure of talent as a person and as an archer. What talent I wasn't blessed with can and is made up for by practice.

 Which is more unethical? the guy that hasn't practiced and tries that 20 yard broadside shot or the fellow that has practiced all year and can consistently hit the kill zone at 35 yards.

 Ethics is a personal decision, not to be second guessed by arm chair quarterbacks. One last thought, to an antihunter every shot is unethical, wheter it's a high percentage shot or a more marginal shot.     Critizising (sp) each other, for split second decisions is what fuels the antihunters movement not the shot itself. I don't believe anyone sets out to make a bad shot, unfortunatly life happens.

[BradLantz]

is there a difference between taking a marginal shot and making it, and taking a "perfect" shot and losing a wounded animal ?

my question is, the end result really does justify taking the shot, doesn't it ?

[onewhohasfun]

It seems the quartering toward you shot is getting to be the norm on many shows. I think this contributes to a monkey see monkey do attitude. I know of a guy who wounded six bucks last season, all poor shot angles, mech. heads, lite arrows, some with even no blood trail even found!

[pcappy08]

I have to totally agree some of the shots on tv are outrageous and as a hunter i am often left wondering what the person was thinking.  Im all for having fun at the 3d range taking long or difficult shots but that is a scenario where the worst end result is a lost or broken arrow people need to have the common sense and self control to know that doesnt translate into the woods.  Recently on one of those shows i watched a guy take a 100 yard shot at a pronghorn.  I was appalled...it ended in a gut shot that editing made look like a good kill shot it was rediculious...but i guess thats the way most of these shows are now. Sad how it portrays hunting and hunters if you ask me

[Brian Krebs]

I personally hate quite a few things about tv shots and situations. Things that I in a lifetime of hunting have not ever dealt with.
                                       
 Like the guide that tells you when and when not to shoot. I am not going to pay money to hunt an animal; and then have someone tell me when to shoot. I decide that.
                                       
 Sayings like ' I smoked him' ; and 'I dropped the hammer on that one'; and 'I couldn't wait to squeeze the trigger on that buck'...and the worst line -  "did I hit it?".
                                               
I hate it when a hunter shoots a foam target and then puts the arrows in his quiver and says he is ready to hunt. NO first you sharpen your arrows- THEN you hunt !

I might be too old at 58 to understand the origin and usage of the saying ' that's what I'm talkin bout!'. But I am sick of it.

 I like to note the color of the fletch on a hunt and then I count the arrows in the quiver. Often the hunter makes a perfect shot; and there are 4 arrows missing from his quiver.

  Two seconds after the shot the hunter says :"he dropped !!" then they are looking for the deer the next day..

  Changing camo. They start the days hunt in a tree with one camo pattern; and its different when they draw back; and when they go to get the deer- they are wearing something totally different.

 Bad shots happen - more often to gun hunters than bow hunters. I watched a guy getting ready to shoot at a deer at 350 yards. He said " I think I can make that shot" -" I am pretty sure" -" I probably will".... what? Tonight I saw a guy shoot at a turkey with a shotgun. He hit the bird when it was facing the opposite direction; and had its head up. The shot hit the bird just below the bottom of the neck- feathers moved; the turkey flopped and took off running/ wobbling.. and the guy said " I missed !" -  "I can't believe I missed!". I have news for that guy - he didn't miss; he just didn't follow up the shot.

 I have refused to shoot at some 3D targets; like a buck standing broadside with a doe under it in the background. A bear standing up in a creek bed ( it could have cubs if it wasn't foam).

 The line I predict we will hear more and more often is ' did I hit it?' As arrows get faster- and its in the 300 to 340 feet per second; the arrows flight is too fast to see. We will hear more ' did I hit it?'s in the future...

[Red Beastmaster]

"I have refused to shoot at some 3D targets; like a buck standing broadside with a doe under it in the background. A bear standing up in a creek bed ( it could have cubs if it wasn't foam)."

You are kidding, right?

[Plumber]

There are a lot of ways to look at all this. when I hunt I HUNT 8-15yd shots when on a 3-d course I shoot whats laid out sometimes I move closer. camra angle has everything to do with it I dont like the fact they show it then justifi it we all know it happens. we dont need any bad press just because they want to make a T.V show the problem is they fly in to airport get picked up rush to the hunt site trying to get big deer on film in a few days then off to the next spot pressure is pressure a person will make mistakes underpressure they spend all that time an money an there man shanks the shot so they paint up the segment an move on. It will catch up with us

[3undr]

I like the responses on this thread. It proves that some people will do almost anything to sell a video and/or products. Now this may upset some but I am just speaking of my own experence at 3d shoots. I still shoot all types of archery and the only time I have had a problem with unethical shots have been on traditional shoots. After the shoot I mentioned this to a range offical and the response I got was( we like challenging shots) Well I like shots that challenge also as long as it is at ethical angles. When young archers and those just getting in to archery come to one of our 3d shoots it is our duty to make it as life like as possible. This will promote good ethical hunting

[freefeet]

What annoys me is giving points at 3D shoots for wounding the animal.

Surely missing the animal altogether should be rewarded more than wounding it.  Ok, it's only playing and in the UK we're not allowed to hunt with bows, but it's hardly surprising that the public think hunting sucks over here when those who are pretending to put on simulated bowhunting shoots with lifesize 3D's give people big pats on the back and medals for wounding.

[sshntr]

I always thought the point of a 3d match was to make the shots difficult enough to create differentiation among scores.  If every shot at a match was 15 yards, broad side, and wide open, then it wouldn't be much fun and all the shooters would score within a few points of each other.

Shooting between two limbs at 30 yards in a 3d match does not make me believe I can do the same on a live animal.  It simply makes me more confident to take that 18 yard broadside shot that we all are looking for when hunting.

[freefeet]

Originally posted by sshntr:
I always thought the point of a 3d match was to make the shots difficult enough to create differentiation among scores.  If every shot at a match was 15 yards, broad side, and wide open, then it wouldn't be much fun and all the shooters would score within a few points of each other.

If it was made that the heart was 20 points, lungs 10 points and wounds -20 then i think it would work quite well at up to 25 yard distances.  They don't all have to be big 3D's either.  Some of the smaller 3D's would really seperate the good from the bad with that kind of scoring even at short distances.

[tomyhawk]

I was watching bowhunt 365 he shot @ 90 yards and was telling how comfortable he was with the shot.
I couldn't beleive my ears.He hit it way high and way back,I guess a good hit is in the eys of the beholder.
Said he practices all the time @ 100 and over .
I deleted the recording and removed it from my dvr for all future shows.
   :mad:      

[Dartwick]

I think some people rad a bit too much into 3 D rules.

Its a casual game that most of us do for practice.

As someone who actually hunts - there is pretty much nothing in common about the pressure and thought processes between hunting and any kind of target shooting. The only thing that carries though is hopefully the mechanics of shooting.

[Schultzy]

Yes everyone has there own comfort zone with shot distances and such but some Pro shops, some hunting shows, and some hunting celebrity's are pushing this longer distance shooting because of the "faster" bows. I don't care how fast your bow Is, It's never going to be fast enough for some of these animals when they duck, drop, or whatever you want to call It.

The young crowd that goes and buys a bow for the 1st time gets told this all the time "your bow Is fast, you can shoot longer ranges". I'm so sick of hearing that, makes me sick!!! These new born bow hunters don't know any better so there going to do what the pro's say, It's not there fault, It's the pro shops and the TV guru's pushing the bad Info!! Bow hunting on TV Is no longer up and close hunting on allot of the shows. I get laughed at when I go out west Elk hunting with my recurve, people always tell me I'm nuts. Everybody has got It drilled In there head that If you don't take 40 yard shots elk hunting your not going to be successful at getting an elk. I hear It all the time In person and on bow hunting forums, drives me nuts. Learn to have patience I tell them and It will happen. In saying what I said though It's most likely not going to do any good bickering about It and In my opinion "longer distance shooting" Is going to be the norm In the future.  

Each to there own I guess.

[MI_Bowhunter]

When it comes to 3D I always liked the old targets that had the score on the inside.   You had to play the angle on those or you wouldn't score well.  Today, I really don't worry about score when shooting 3D, I just shoot it for hunting practice so I try to shoot where I would shoot on a real animal.

As far as videos go, I think the people in most of them feel the pressure to out do their previous video or to make sure they get enough game to sell a video next year.  This pressure in turn starts to influence their their hunting and ethical choices.

The consumers are their own worst enemy in this cycle.  How may people would buy a monster bucks video that contained nothing but misses?  From what I've seem from most hunting videos, it's much less about the hunt and all about the kill.   Not just any kill mind you but a "monster" .

IMHO hunting in general has become too much of a competition and less about "hunting".   Whether the videos are the cause for that or just a reflection of that, I'm not quite sure.