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Author Topic: unethical shots  (Read 2090 times)

Offline Joseph

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2009, 09:18:00 AM »
From what I have seen even though he hunts with a muzzleloader a lot of bowhunters on TV could learn a thing or two from Jim Shockey about shot selection and presenting a good image of hunting to the public.  I have also noticed that the female hunters on TV are usually a lot more patient and better shots.
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Offline unclewhit

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2009, 10:12:00 AM »
The only reason that I watch those shows is to gain knowlege, ie. I have never seen a live caribou and now, after watching a few hunts on the tube, I'm fairly confident that if I ever get a chance to hunt a caribou I'll have some idea of a good set of horns and a great set of horns.
Now don't get me wrong I am a meat hunter first and formost, but if I hit the migration just right and 1000 + bou are funneling by me, well you get the picture.
Sorry about babbleing on so long.
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Offline Don Stokes

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2009, 10:34:00 AM »
Let's not forget: 3D is about competition, not about hunting. Just because 3D courses are set up to have some difficult shots, it doesn't mean that the people who set it up are encouraging us to take those shots while hunting.

When I did a lot of competing, I always liked the all-traditional shoots best, because the shots were usually more difficult, with more "trash" in the way. More fun. The compound shooters were more likely to set up the shots so that they wouldn't lose any of those high-priced arrows, and so that they could hold their bows vertically. Also, traditional shoots frequently had moving targets, which compound shooters have a really hard time with. The old Howard Hill shoot in Wilsonville, AL usually had more moving than stationary targets. Does that mean that traditional shooters prefer to shoot at moving animals? No. It's just more fun with the additional challenge of a more difficult shot, and the archers who can meet the challenge come out on top.

One of the most striking differences between the all-trad and the other shoots was the noise level on the course when the groups were making the rounds. All serious quietness and whispers from the high-tech bunch, lots of laughter and ribbing of each other from our gang. I once saw a high-tech guy smash his high-dollar bow onto the ground and walk away in frustration. He kind of missed the point, I think.

To get back on topic, I can only hope that the hunting viewers are at least sophisticated enough to realize that TV shows are not real, even when they are purported to be. The blatant advertising of the products used should be enough to alert even the most jaded watcher to the real agenda, which is the marketing of an ever-increasing array of ridiculous inventions that will help us bring home the ultimate trophy.

But if we don't watch the shows, how will we know which manufacturers to boycott? Catch-22.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.- Ben Franklin

Offline oxnam

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2009, 10:38:00 AM »
I agree about not taking unethical shots but why isn't anyone ragging on our big name founding archery "heros".  
I really enjoy 3D but it is a game.  For me, some of this discussion would be the equivilant of railing a guy for going out stump shooting and taking shots that he would never take hunting.  Shooting too far, threading a shot through a too crowded shooting lane, etc.  
If someone is not bright enough to differentiate hunting from 3D, I don't think they are going to make the best decisions in the field anyway.  3D can offer a great chance to teach, explain, and discuss why an individual shot is good or bad.  But don't get puffed up or boast because you passed up an unethical shot at a block of foam.  I have never stump shot with anyone that every passed up a challenging shot with the excuse that they wouldn't take the shot on a deer so they will pass.  Let's keep things in perspective.
I speculate that if we had every one of our shots on animals filmed, we would be able to pick apart a lot of our own shots.  Maybe the lane was crowded, animal needed to fully extended that leg, animal was quartering towards us slightly, etc.  It's too easy to pick apart someone on stage when in reality, many of us might still make similar decisions.
If they are truly unethical, they shouldn't be on the air setting an example and teaching people.
oxnam

Offline LoneWolf

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2009, 01:31:00 PM »
I have seen the draw on the rhino, it was a green hunt with a dart, and Jim S makes some great shots.  Waits for a good clean shot on the animals he hunts.  There are a few shows on the Outdoot Channel i refuse to watch because of the horrible shots I have seen made and the "hunter" talks about what a great shot it was.  The one that made me stop watching one of the shows, he hit very high and very far back(can we say hemroid surgery) then bragged about what a great shot he made.
As for 3d shoots, I have "0"ed several targets by shotting where I would on a real animal rather than at the point markers.  Quartering away shot, if you following where my arrow was, right through at least one lung and very close to the heart, but way off as far as points go.  As long as people realize the point rings are great for trying to get small groups and not proper placement in all situations, they are alright.
It would be nice to see "real" hunting on some of these shows, the kind where you bounce an arrow off a limb you didn't notice and the animal runs out 40 yards and laughs at you.  Maybe we should make our own show, one that teaches ethic shooting and the responsiblity of being a hunter.
Just my $.02
LoneWolf
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Offline PAPA BEAR

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2009, 02:24:00 PM »
yes jim shockey is a very ethical hunter but he must be nutts to stick a dart in a rhino at that range...i did not realize that was a green hunt so my bad,i was going to guide a guy from cali once who said he would shoot an elk at 100 yards with his compound.NOTTT..told him his limit was 50 while hunting with me,called him in a 300 class bull to 20yds and he shot 6 feet over its back..lol..but yes these guys on tv set the visual impression non hunters see when the anti's start a campain against us.
IT'S NEVER WRONG TO DO WHATS RIGHT AND NEVER RIGHT TO DO WHATS WRONG.....LOU HOLTZ

Offline PAPA BEAR

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2009, 02:36:00 PM »
nighthawk....there is either ethical shooting or non ethical shooting.each hunter has to define his or her own distance that is comfortable.by ethical shooting i am referring to the animal being in a broadside position when the projectile is delivered not the distance,but at the same time there is unethical distance shots with archery equipment also.
IT'S NEVER WRONG TO DO WHATS RIGHT AND NEVER RIGHT TO DO WHATS WRONG.....LOU HOLTZ

Offline Bill Turner

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2009, 05:03:00 PM »
I'm surprized we have not heard from Fred Eichler(Eastman Bowhunting TV) by now. He has always been quick to reply on other subjects. I to have noticed the poor shot angles and bad hits being called perfect with great blood and a short recovery. It would be nice for one of the TV hunters to jump in and answer a few of these threads. Fred's show is the only one that I watch on a consistent basis. Would love to hear what he has to say on the subject but he might not want to put it in writing and I can't say I would blame him if that is the case.

Offline ishiwannabe

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2009, 05:09:00 PM »
I tried watching a show with my son this afternoon. I had to turn it off. First off, it was a point based competition. Secondly, one guy took what had to be an 80 or 90 yard shot at an antelope with a wheelie bow. The animal moved about ten feet and turned around before the arrow was even half way there.

On another note, some shots which appear unethical in either distance or position of the animal can be attributed to the camera, or its position regarding the shooter. Some....but not all.
"I lost arrows and didnt even shoot at a rabbit" Charlie after the Island of Trees.
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Online Orion

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2009, 05:34:00 PM »
I agree with Sam McMichael back on page 2.  I stopped watching those programs long ago.  However, on the few occasions I did watch them in the past, when I witnessed shoddy behavior, which was almost always, I paid particular attention to the advertisers so I could make damn sure I would never, ever buy any of their products.

Offline PAPA BEAR

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2009, 08:36:00 PM »
sadly thats what these shows are all about....what can we sell you.boils down to the allmighty dollar again.    :banghead:
IT'S NEVER WRONG TO DO WHATS RIGHT AND NEVER RIGHT TO DO WHATS WRONG.....LOU HOLTZ

Offline Mo. Huntin

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2009, 09:18:00 PM »
I love you guys but we got some cazy ethics thoughts out there.  Antihunters already hate us and you can not reason with someone who is using their heart to think with instead of looking at things logicaly with there brain. I don't watch a lot of hunting shows but I have not seen any 100 yard shots, I did see a 70 yard a long time ago and it was upsetting.  I am glad to find out that that was a dart on that rhino because that bothered me. Sorry but I would be happy if I never heard the term wheelie bow again.  A big turn off from switching to trad was all the damn whinning about the wheelie bow guys at the shoots.

Offline matt schuster

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2009, 09:19:00 PM »
I've been involved in filming several shows and can tell you that the pressure to finish a show in a limited amount of time is amazing.   Although it wasn't the case when I was involved, this certainly can lead to bad behavior. Personally, I don't watch them because they have little to do with hunting as I know it - they have to do with entertainment and the guys making the shows know that.   The frightening thing to me is how much influence the shows seem to have had on the increase in emphasis on big antlers and on the increase in wannabe "professional" hunters.

Offline Swamp Yankee

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2009, 09:37:00 PM »
I agree that 3D shoots don't help this problem at all.  I'd like to see more "traditional" 3D shoots with all shots realistic (20 yards or less) with minus points for bad hits.
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Offline houseman

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2009, 09:57:00 PM »
I seem to remember a thread on here a year or two ago about a guy who shot an elk at about 60 yrds.  Heart shot that elk.  For the most part he got blasted for taking such a long shot.  Soo who ethics are we talking about?  Yours or the o ne taking the shot?  I think we as a whole work to make quick clean kills.  But, are world is not there's  I see shots on those shows that make me sick.  So I don't watch them.  To each there own.
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Online pdk25

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2009, 10:18:00 PM »
:coffee:  Yawn.  Never heard this line of thought before.

Offline PAPA BEAR

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2009, 11:30:00 PM »
houseman...even a blind squirrel gets a nut now and then...ethical shooting is not you,me,he or she. its us.ethics cannot be twisted around for one person as at that point they are no longer ethical if you are outside the quote,rules of ethical hunting then you need to start all over and go through the hunters safety course in your area,we are all taught when young the do's and dont's of hunting.sadly they get left on the ground with the rest of the garbage.to me an unethical hunter is the same guy who rolls down his window and tosses out his garbage.   :readit:
IT'S NEVER WRONG TO DO WHATS RIGHT AND NEVER RIGHT TO DO WHATS WRONG.....LOU HOLTZ

Offline houseman

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2009, 11:41:00 PM »
Fair enough but If so an so can shoot a 6" group at 50 yrds.  Is it wrong for him to take a 45 tyrd shot that he knows he can make?  I don't understand what you are saying about ethic's being twisted?  Tell me what you mean
Semper Fi

Offline PAPA BEAR

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2009, 12:12:00 AM »
i simply meant that one mans ethics need to be the same as the next and so on.i have no problem with a hunter shooting 50 yds as long as its a broadside shot although that is a ways out there for a traditional bow but hey..if you can shoot that good then by all means take the shot and pray the animal doesn't take a step when the sound reaches him a long time before the arrow does..no offense meant or taken....larry
IT'S NEVER WRONG TO DO WHATS RIGHT AND NEVER RIGHT TO DO WHATS WRONG.....LOU HOLTZ

Offline Col

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Re: unethical shots
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2009, 01:41:00 AM »
Missed twice on the same doe this year at a range I'm proficient at.

Turns out, she wasn't quite at the range I thought she was.  

Wonder why?

Ultimately it ended up...she was a BIG doe.  Absosmurfly humongous!  Buddy put her down soundly after I ran her off with my misses.

I went home with a couple handfulls of squirrels instead.  No harm done, recovered my arrows.  She got educated, and I got an education.

Oh, and my squirrels-n-biscuits w/ squirrel gravy.

Hey, if you can't make it for dinner, make breakfast!
Shooting with feeling since 1976 & luvin' every minute of it.

Thanks Dad!

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