Treestands on Public Land

[joe skipp]

Public Land means just that...Open to the Public.

I hunt public land and if a bowhunter decides to leave his treestand there all season it tells other hunters...A) Must be a good spot, guy has a stand here...or B) Tells the Maggots, hey, lets take that stand and get out of here. My suggestion, use a climbing stand or risk A and B.

I have a few great spots that I have "ambush" blinds setup on the ground. If I ease in and find a guy in a stand, I wave and move on. I have hunted within 50 yds of permenant stands on Public Land because its a good spot we both happen to locate. I would expect courtesy from the stand hunter if I was there first to "move on".

If you use a Lok On tree stand, does it make sense to take it down every time you leave? I don't think so but remove it after the season. I don't think its wrong for anyone else who comes in with a climbing stand to setup within a reasonable distance and hunt that area if the other stand is vacant.

If I did hunt from treestands...no, I would never use another hunters treestand. That would be totally disrespectful to that person and IMO unethical.

[xtrema312]

Originally posted by Deadsmple:
 

Originally posted by xtrema312:

  In the same tree or in my stand?  I don’t think so.  That is just not necessary.  

This is my point, if I were in that same tree you had put your stand but using my own stand you are implying that I've done something wrong. I got there first this day. I've scouted the area just like you and have and found that this is the best tree to be in. Even though I had gotten out there before you, you are implying that you have some sort of claim since your stand is there already. Mind you I would never do this, but hey think about it. [/b]

It is your tree also, but it is my stand.  Keep your hands off my stand.  I am not implying there is anything legally or morally wrong with you putting your stand in the same tree other than “it is not necessary” where I hunt, and not a great idea for many obvious reasons.  I am sure there are places where there is only one magic tree, but the state land I hunt in you can go a few feet and get a nice tree to hunt, and many times with wind changes a better one that day.

If I scout and know someone is hunting a spot then that is not the best spot to be in.  Every hour a spot is hunted it becomes less productive.  If a bunch of people are trying to hunt the magic tree constantly I will be gone along with the deer.  I don’t mind seeing some flagging or a stand to know they are there.  Then I can hunt where the deer are skirting them.  You can waste a lot of time hunting because you don’t know what the other hunters are doing.  Around here you have to hunt the hunter conditions more than the deer. Knowing what everyone is doing is critical.  

I don’t agree with the idea that you go out and put up a stands to claim areas to hunt for the whole season, but I don’t see the necessity put up and pull a stand every day when you are actively hunting.  To me actively hunting means I will be there multiple days in a row or will be there say 4 or more days out of a week’s hunt.  If I am there that much why would you want to be?  If you are I can guarantee I don’t want to be there and I don’t care how good the sign is.

[Jerry Jeffer]

If you are leaving a stand on public land, you   are  "claiming" a spot.  I have read many comments about "well, I don't like stumbling around in the dark"...  I walk right to my spots with out a light all the time. If you can't find your spot in the dark (with or with out a light), you didn't know the area well enough to hunt it.    There is a nice climber near one of my set ups that has been there for years (at the base of the tree). I'm pretty sure the bozo who left it couldn't find it again because it is obviously never used. Leaving a stand on public land   IS claiming, and I think it stinks! I was once a stand hunter and always carried my stand in and out every time. Some public lands look like a forest of tree stands left "claiming" trees. You found a promising spot on public land? Good for you, and so did I. Let's see who gets there first. Take your gear home and stop trying to hijack     our  land.

[OkKeith]

Here is how it works in Oklahoma.

Excerpt from 2008-2009 hunting regulations:

 "No permanent type stands may be constructed in or on a tree nor shall cleats be driven into a tree to gain access to a portion of any tree nor shall any person hunt from such a stand. Only portable type stands, that do not require the use of any fastening device that has the potential of damaging a tree, are permitted. Stands shall be removed from the tree immediately following the closure of the hunt for which they were used with a limit of no more than 14 days. Stands remaining after this time become the property of the Department to be disposed of in the best practical manner."

I think this rule settles a lot of problems folks have with this issue. If not all, well...some of the people some of the time in this case.

I don't fool with tree stands when I hunt public land. I am fortunate to have boats and canoes that I use to access places most folks can't/won't go. I only hunt deer on public land occasionally, but spend a lot of time chasing turkeys there.

OkKeith

[stick_string]

my .02 cents.......

If you leave your bow in the back of your truck and walk off, then someone takes it...you should get mad becuase they took it, but you should also kick yourself for leaving it out.

Same with the stand...people should not steal, but if you leave it out there you are accepting a certain risk...and with today's society, that is a big risk.

having said that...I agree with those that would take them down everytime.  That is what I do and for all the reasons mentioned.

[Tocs]

I have less a problem with this on public ground,as you do have the ability to move on.Especially so on big tracts of public land.
I extended a courtesy to some one on private ground this year that I will not extend again.I hunted a private piece that myself and two or three other have permission to be on.While scouting I identified three spots that I felt very good about and I started looking for the best tree.Within a short period in each instance I came across ladder stands of another hunter.I moved on.While scouting a number of times and hunting a number of times I never saw another hunter through out the entire season,yet I was staying out of those locations.
I will not do that again,I will set up and take down lock ons each time,and hunt where ever I please,with the exception of course if I see another hunter in there.I will always be courteous and considerate.In some senses I felt like a fool this season on that property though,this guy may have never hunted any of those stands and I was staying out of those area's.

[xtrema312]

Originally posted by Jerry Jeffer:
If you are leaving a stand on public land, you   are  "claiming" a spot.  I have read many comments about "well, I don't like stumbling around in the dark"...  I walk right to my spots with out a light all the time. If you can't find your spot in the dark (with or with out a light), you didn't know the area well enough to hunt it.    There is a nice climber near one of my set ups that has been there for years (at the base of the tree). I'm pretty sure the bozo who left it couldn't find it again because it is obviously never used. Leaving a stand on public land   IS claiming, and I think it stinks! I was once a stand hunter and always carried my stand in and out every time. Some public lands look like a forest of tree stands left "claiming" trees. You found a promising spot on public land? Good for you, and so did I. Let's see who gets there first. Take your gear home and stop trying to hijack     our  land.

Your post was just a little too attacking on some simple statements of other for me to pass up.      It is easy to pull out part of someone’s statement and criticize it.  Keep in mind this is all in good lighthearted fun on my part.  I just can’t resist.

If it is legal to hang and leave a stand then there is no legal or moral violation to do so other than you don't like it.  You can have your view, but that is your view and doesn’t make it right or wrong.  If in your mind they have claimed a spot then that is in your mind and maybe theirs, but it is not the rule.  Not everyone is going to do things your way.  If that was the case you all would be doing things my way.    

"I walk right to my spots without a light all the time." Your spot?      So if someone is in your spot you go off looking for another spot in the dark and never have to see where you are going partially when you have to cover a lot of ground to get to the next and maybe the next after that to get set up and save a morning hunt?  Apparently where you hunt that doesn’t happen, and you just have your spot. So maybe this is really not an issue for you.  Or maybe everyone has a stand up so they all know where they are hunting, and a half dozen people don’t try to setup in your spot on Saturday morning. See that is the other side of the coin on this.  Many don’t like everyone having a stand up.  However, where I hunt you can have a half dozen people in small area.  We all scouted and like a couple spots.  If no one hung a stand or made a ground blind then no none knows where everyone is intending to hunt.  If we all show up Saturday morning heading for those top couple spots that is where the stumbling around in the dark disturbing the whole area comes in as we try to sort it out.  I don’t like people trying to claim an area of public land for their very own, but knowing what people are doing is not all bad.  In some area with designated parking or where you have to sign into an area it is a easy deal. In others that are less controled it can be a little crazy.  We don't all have the same conditions.

I don’t use a light most of the time either if I am going to my spot, but I carry one.  If do use it I use the red setting on my head lamp.  On public land I always use a light.  That is just common sense so someone knows what you are when you set up in the same tree. If it is gun season I use a really big bright one.    :eek:  I walk the main trails all the time without light.  However, if you walk through the woods without light be careful you don’t get shot on that public land, get a stick in the eye, or trip on a newly fallen dead limb on those moonless nights.

[Doc Nock]

Parts of SE PA are similar to NJ from what friends tell me of the Garden State.

I hunt public and some private bordering public and it'd be dead certain, Deadsimple, if I left it, it would be gone when I got back.

I know people have come back to find the tree cut down their stand was in and stand is gone!

I got quite good at putting up a hang on daily, actually, 2x Daily, on public land... Dark up in AM, Dark down in PM.

It's SWEET when there isa place I occassionally hunt where I leave it at Dead Dark 30 and am back in it hour before daylight next day. Sweet, I tell ya!  

I know stands that are set before archery on state lands and never hunted till gun season. I just hunt nearby. I admire your ethics to avoid the area...but do so only if there is someone in the stand.

I've had so many situation where I'm in there early to set up and just at dawn, here come a couple yahoos stumblin along and set up just at daybreak...right close to me... On those days, I end up either tuffin it out cause I trust my trail more'n theirs, or I just move out and set up elsewhere...irksome, but as a 'po bo' hunting public land, it is what it is.

Now...not only do stands left bother me, but I'll hunt "nearby" if nobody is in it...but what about all those bright eyes left in trees that look like airport runways headed into some soul's stand site and the tacks are left there...forever...

I hate walkin in the woods at dark to find dozens of trails marked and tacks left! That's my gripe!  

[Jerry Jeffer]

Of course it's not "my spot", it is my intended spot. If some one was there, I could easily navigate to any of many other places with out messing up the woods because I know my area that well. I also give my self plenty of time to do just that in case I bump deer out of that spot or what ever other miss hap might happen. I really don't mind sharing the woods, but I don't leave some thing there to claim the spot. Also, like Doc said. If I had to follow all those cat eyes, I'd end up in.......well, some where.

[Deadsmple]

What a wonderful world it would be if everyone followed Dave2old's advise. But we all know everyone won't so in an effort to keep this discussion going:

I must say I know nothing of hunting from treestands. From the replies to this and other threads I believe they are probably a pain in the @$$ and noisy to hang. So I can understand the point of view that one would not want to take their stand in and out every hunt. I understand the point of view I do not sympathize. It's your choice not mine.

Knowing the movements of other hunters is a major priority here in NJ. That's a given. Finding their stands only makes life easier.

But none of that is what this discussion is about. I started the thread mostly to discuss the claim or implied claim one makes when they leave a stand in the woods. Many have said that since it is public land you cannot do anything about the guy that wants to set up right next to you in an adjacent tree. You would probably just move on to another spot you know. Let's not beat around the bush. I want to set up in that same tree that your stand is in. I'm not going to touch your stand, I have my own. Do I have to worry about being confronted by you when you get there a few minutes/hours later? Or will you just move on? Maybe post later here on Tradgang about the @$$hole in "your" spot. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I know we can say that I should have just found another tree when i saw the other stand up there. But isn't that alone implying that the presence of the other stand makes a claim?

[GingivitisKahn]

Originally posted by woodsman196:
 

Originally posted by GingivitisKahn:
maybe that hunter's intent isn't to mark a spot - others still see them and feel obligated to move on.

If hunters take their stands down every time they leave and you did not see them (hunters or stands)in the area does that lead you to believe you were the only person to use that spot?
[/b]

Of course not.  If I show up in a decent spot first in the morning though, I expect (occasionally wrongly) that other hunters will know enough to move along that day - just like I do for them.

If there's a stand there - it may not be used for another day, or month or year, then sitting close is just risking a 'conversation' with the owner who has staked his claim (last night or last year).

Frankly hunting time is too limited to risk having to waste it in a debate over who will be hunting here in the morning.

[Arwin]

Here we are allowed to place stands on public land Sept 1st. I follow all the rules along with not using screw in tree steps, name and number attached, etc. I use strap steps and take 4-5 back out with me to make my stand unaccesible.
 
"Claiming" seems like a bad term but I can relate to why it would be used.  Our public ground is crowded and getting worse each year and the competition is getting strong. I dislike the competition part but I admire the fact that so many people are still hunting or starting to hunt.  
 
 With that in mind, having a stand hanging will give other hunters a "heads-up" that this spot will most likely be used by the person who hung it. While it is perfectly legal for anyone to sit there, most hunters don't want the chance of their time  in the woods being botched by the hunter who hung it, and could show up at any time.  

 I like using a sling or climber but have had other hunters come into the spot I'm hunting and complain that they hadn't known I was using it. While I could have been hunting that spot all season, they usually think I "just showed up" and now have ruined their day. It's a catch .22  

[davidbeidler]

I don't think any one would be happy to find some one else set up in a tree where they have a treestand setup. On public land I understand that is first come first served.  I don't  use a hangon stand to stake a claim. I like hangons because I can setup and come and go quietly. I would take my stand and leave if I found you there ahead of me. you probably wouldn't appreciate the noise that  made when I removed my tree stand however. Please note that I didn't say it was my "spot"! I hunt every year on public land in New Jersey and generally other people have been respectful of other peoples space. You do need to factor hunter movements into your setups. Sometimes you can use it to your advantage. I don't put stands up and leave them anywhere all season. If I hang a stand I am actively using it.  Leaving stands up on public land for long periods of time is asking for trouble.

[OkKeith]

As I said before, I generally don't use a stand when I hunt public land, but really, this discussion applies to ground blinds, brush blinds or even just a spot you might have swept the leaves away from to cut down on noise.

If I put effort into improving a hunting spot, I am invested in it. Both physically and emotionally. Do I consider it MY spot? Sure. Do I hope that another hunter might recognize my effort and move along to someplace else? Yes. Would I be disappointed if I make the effort to get there early and someone else is at or close to the spot? Again, yes. Is that disappointment going to cause a lapse in good judgment or cause me to forget my good manners? No, not me.

Everyone has dealt with rude people. If 10 percent of the world’s population are jerks, it is naïve to expect a lesser percentage in any selected sub-population, be it hunters, golfers or tidily-wink players.

I am fortunate to live in a moderately populated part of the country. More people mean more chances for contact and a need to deal with the situations that arise. Because I live where there are fewer people, I have a higher expectation of not seeing anyone else. I work to increase this expectation by deliberately seeking out places that are hard to get to and at first glance may not be “optimal”. I have killed deer in places that people would never think to hunt because they don’t look like good places to hunt, on public land.

I see nothing wrong with a sense of possession about a spot. It is part and parcel of the passion that I think should go along with hunting, as long as it doesn’t over-power common sense and propriety. Then again, there is always that 10 percent.

OkKeith

[Jerry Jeffer]

Vaughn, I see what you are getting at. I would say Yes, you would be confronted around where we hunt if you were in the same tree or next to a tree that had a stand in it. Sure the guy might move on after making a racket and urinating all around the place. Again you ask is it claiming? Well of course it is. Even if we don't want to think so or admit it.       When putting time and effort into an area, we would love for it to be our little spot.  You know, I once watched a guy set up about 25-30 yards behind you. Since he knew the deer would be passing by you, he faced your direction while we all sat waiting for deer. Any shot he would have would send an arrow your way. The facts are that we have to deal with this kind of thing when on public land . I'm just glad I have not had to worry about that the past several years.

[xtrema312]

Originally posted by Jerry Jeffer:
Of course it's not "my spot", it is my intended spot. If some one was there, I could easily navigate to any of many other places with out messing up the woods because I know my area that well. I also give my self plenty of time to do just that in case I bump deer out of that spot or what ever other miss hap might happen. I really don't mind sharing the woods, but I don't leave some thing there to claim the spot. Also, like Doc said. If I had to follow all those cat eyes, I'd end up in.......well, some where.

Jerry I was just having some fun with you.  Sometimes you say something knowing what you mean, but it just doesn’t sound right to the reader.  I do the same as you when hunting.  However, two years ago walking into a stand opening day on the family farm I nearly had a bad fall on the main tractor path in the woods.  I was going slow in the dark and stepped into the edge of a hole or rut of some kind.  I stopped and turned on a light.  My dad decided to dig that little rock out of the two track to get rid of it.  Well he got to the point about 2' in the ground and found it had at least one dimension of 6'.  He stopped digging.  I guess he was trying to think about what to do with it for a while.  I could have end up face planted on a huge rock in a hole in the ground walking a path I have walked thousand of time in pitch black.  The hole is still there.

[wtpops]

Originally posted by Deadsmple:
But none of that is what this discussion is about. I started the thread mostly to discuss the claim or implied claim one makes when they leave a stand in the woods. Many have said that since it is public land you cannot do anything about the guy that wants to set up right next to you in an adjacent tree. You would probably just move on to another spot you know. Let's not beat around the bush. I want to set up in that same tree that your stand is in. I'm not going to touch your stand, I have my own. Do I have to worry about being confronted by you when you get there a few minutes/hours later? Or will you just move on? Maybe post later here on Tradgang about the @$$hole in "your" spot. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I know we can say that I should have just found another tree when i saw the other stand up there. But isn't that alone implying that the presence of the other stand makes a claim?

From what i know about public land in my area is you would have every right to set up in the tree i have a stand in( even if i am sitting in the stand at the time). To your question, do you have to worry about me confronting you if you setup in the tree my stand is in. It is to broad a question, there would be a differant answer for each person who showed up to get in his stand.

Me personaly the only thing you would have to worry about is the noise i would make gitting my stand out of the tree to go find another place. You would probley not see a deer for two days. You would also have to worry about what i thought of you, of corse the type of guy that woud do that in the first place would more than likley not worry about what i thought of them as a person anyway.

With all that said my answer to your question is based on if you found my stand in a tree it was because i put it there the day before not 2 years ago.

Does anybody or myself have a claim to a certin spot on public land IMO no, but i have a certin personal and hunter respect for another guys setup.

[StickBowManMI]

Arwin

I too hunt public land in Michigan. My feeling is that leaving a stand set up in the tree is oK, however, if you arrive and another hunter is using that area. Then that hunter was there first and the late arrival should move on. I only hunt from the ground and have had other hunters come in late and when they finally see me in my ground blind, they expect me to leave. That can get my dander up and the day would be ruined for both of us. It seems that common courtesy is the best way, whoever arrives first gets to hunt it and the late arrival should back out gracefully and quietly. (IMO)

[xtrema312]

In Michigan the law says
If you hunt on public land, your tree stand must be portable and your name and address must be affixed in legible English that can be easily read from the ground. ……..Screw-in tree steps are illegal on public lands. It is illegal to use any item that penetrates through the bark of a tree ……... Scaffolds, raised platforms, ladders, steps and any other device to assist in climbing a tree cannot be placed on public lands any earlier than September 1, and must be removed by March 1. ……... Your name on a tree stand or ground blind on public land does not guarantee exclusive use.
You are not guaranteed sole use of it.  So if someone wants to they can hunt your stand.  The rule doesn’t say anything about first to get to the stand.  Or that if someone gets to your stand they can hunt and you go your way.  In my mind the rule says I can hang it and hunt it.  If I am not there and you are you can hunt it.  If I am there and you get there 5 minutes ahead of me it is my stand and you will get off it as long as my name is on it.  If you are in the tree on your stand or to close to me then I can move and should.  First come first served on public land.  That I think is a reasonable interpretation of the rule.  The rest is personal opinion.  I do feel that if someone is seriously hunting a spot regularly and you know it you shouldn’t try and beat them to the spot.  We have people that get permits to set up camp in parking areas on state land, and they have weekend or week group hunts.  I don’t go sliding into the parking area before they get up and try and beat them to their hunting spot they have been hunting in while they are staying there.

Now on state land I don’t do much in the way of cutting and improving a hunting spot so I tread light and don’t linger or feel a spot is mine.  On private land I do, with the permission of the land owner, improve.  On private land where I have been hunting for years and perfecting and improving hunting stands by making trails, clearings, and cutting shooting lanes I don’t care too much for new hunters moving in, and setting up in or on top of my stands.  That given there is a lot of room and many good places to hunt.  There are a very limited number of people hunting.  So I feel that there is way more quality spots to hunt than the predetermined and controlled number of hunters.  In that situation I feel a little different.  On one property of about 250 acres there are four hunters.  There are many cover areas with corn and orchards scattered all through it.  When I got there people were set up and hunting so I found spots with no activity that looked good, and set up two stands.  Now I kind of like those spots.  Some hunters stopped hunting and new ones starts.  Am I wrong to feel some ownership of those spots?  After all none of us hunting owns the land.

[Deadsmple]

Thanks guys for posting. I'm glad to hear the different point of views on this matter. I had hoped to see if those that tend to leave their stands out there could see the point of view that they are making a claim on a particular spot if they intend to or not. It is inevitable that it would be seen as such by others. Hopefully that end has been reached by some. Hunting public land is tough. Hunters trying to respect the space of other makes it tougher.

BTW if I find your stand on public land, I'm sitting in it, it's mine, you're not getting it back. There's diesel in the backhoe. hahaha just funnin' ya. I just got home on a 2 day pass and I'm tired of serious conversation.