what do you consider to be a good group at 20m for med/big game

[ozy clint]

what size group should all your shots go into for hunting med/big game at 20M and closer? just trying to set some practise goals.

[Landshark160]

I'd say 6 inches on deer/hogs.  Of course the deer we have around here are smallish.

[Ybuck]

ive convinced myself that 6" is?  

[Danny J]

I've convinced myself better than mine.  

[Chuck Hoopes]

What's a good group?   A group of ONE in a paper plate.  Shooting nice groups of arrows in your back yard doesn't translate too well to hunting circumstances.  i.e. your not likely to get more than 1 shot, occasionally 2 at the same animal.  Best practice,IMO, is roving or taking 1 shot at that plate in your yard, and then put the bow up, whether you missed or hit-- that completes the session. Multiple sessions like this, at various ranges, angles, etc. through out the day, will train you to make good on the first shot-- this will give you the discipline to confidently, make good on the first arrow on game-- the ones after  do Not matter. Have you ever noticed how easy it is to hit the mark w/ the second arrow, even if you miss the first-- its easy, you know what adjustment to make, and now that you have it dialed in, you can just pack the next 12 in there if you want-- but What's this got to do w/ taking animals? - You're not trying to shoot groups on them-- you're trying to get that first arrow in the chest.  Because thes bows are so much fun to shoot its difficult to put it up after one shot-- its like taking just 1 bite of something you really like. If you vary the distance and angle on every single shot, and only allow your self to keep shooting if you had hit the mark, on the first arrow,  it will give you incentive to focus, knowing that you don't have to put the bow up, until you miss the first shot of one of these varied range/angle shots.  I think, a most will agree, that roving is the best way to learn to shoot -- Unfortunately, roving, is not practical for most of us, on a daily basis-- The one shot backyard practice is the likely the next best opt.--Unless of coutse you have your own 3D course.

[Landshark160]

What size paper plate?  If you're talking about a standard 9" plate, I'd say that's way too lenient.  Missing your intended point of impact by 4.5", in any direction, can lead to some awful long and possibly empty-ended bloodtrails.

[Ssamac]

I get shoeboxes or other boxes of similar size and stuff them with anything that will stop and grab an arrow (old packing, cardboard, foam, etc) duct tape them closed (use 2 million and one for duct tape) and stake them around the yard with damaged arrows. I'm on a semi wooded slope, so I shoot uphill, downhill and if I shoot the lenth of the lot flat. If I stand at one end, then each of next shots gets longer. Then I pick them up and start back at the other end. One arrow per box. That's it. Some days I'm sharper than others.

sam

[pooahl]

First shot is all that counts.  Chuck's got it.  3D is the ticket. First shot on each target at the next 3D shoot will tell you.  You might consider keeping score like this: write down how many you hit it the "vital" area and how far away they were. It's a bit sobering but also very motivating. Numerical scores don't tell me much - I like to dwell on what percentage I made "killing" shots on and how far away they were.  I'll be the first to admit that 3D isn't anywhere near the same as hunting, but you've got to be a shooter first.  Make the first shot count.

[LKH]

1/2".  Oh no, that's for the 25-06.  yeah, I think 6" is reasonable.  Now if I could just remember how long a meter is.  39" ?????

[chiger]

Hey guys,

This is the age old argument isn't it?  I gotta say, I will not take a shot I haven't practiced...a lot!  And in a lot of different ways.

The "will kill" zone on white tail and most medium size game is basically a 5" wide a 10" tall spot behind the shoulder.  For that reason, I have a self imposed 665 rule.  If I can't put 6 out of 6 in a 5" spot at a given rage, I don't shoot that far.  And most of the 6 had better be in or near the 3" dot or I'm not real comfortable.  I owe it to the animal I hunt!

For me there is no worse feeling than wounding an animal and not recovering it.  I'm not a killer, I'm a hunter.  So if I can't recover an animal, whether it's upland birds or deer, it will be for some other reason than me taking a marginal shot.  

And since the subject has come up and we are opining here, effective shooting of any kind is all about muscle memory and technique.  Whether you shoot targets in the back yard, a 3-D range or whatever.  Repetitive shooting using good technique (controlled breathing, consistent anchor, that kind of stuff) at random distances and as often as you can, will get you prepared to succeed when you hunt.  If I'll be shooting from a seat I practice from a seat.  Or my knees or a stand or whatever.  

And like chuck and others suggest, practice at purely instinctive shooting is very important too.  After all, unless you're shooting with sights, stick and string shooting is about as instinctive as shooting gets.  That's the appeal for me.

After that it's just a matter of controlling your nerves and the variables of the field.  Which is the real trick to a successful harvest for most people.  As has been suggested, you usually only get one shot.  So make sure you can hit it every time.

All that said, ozy.  If I can't group 4 or 5 inches at a given range I don't shoot that range. Of course, if I'm squirrel hunting...that target is gonna need to be a touch smaller.  

I know.  Why didn't I just say that.  Sorry.  ;~)

[pseman]

Clinton, in my opinion, it depends on the size of the kill zone of the animal you are hunting. If it's a whitetail, then 6-8". If it's a turkey, 3-4". Elk, 12-14" and so on. I don't mean that in a smart*** way, but just that your level of accuracy must vary with the size of the animal you are hunting. Of course, if you have groups that are suitable for turkeys, then you are deadly on just about anything.

[Ben Maher]

i'd say a within 5 inches of the hair that your aiming at......one shot at a time......

[BrianK]

You can sort of do roving in your back yard.

I like to take 500ml or 340ml plastic drinks bottles and chuck them around the lawn, hide them in flower beds and hang them from trees where there is a suitable backstop. When you hit them it makes a satisfying thunk and often moves them on a ways. If the bottom of the bottle is facing you it makes a smaller and more challenging target.

Judo points or rubber blunts are a must if you don't want to spend your day searching for arrows buried in the lawn.

The smaller the target, the more you focus and your shooting generally should improve.

I have also used the one arrow at a time as above and think it is a great aid to getting that first shot in the right place.

At different times all aspects of your shooting should be worked on, such as bare bale and concentrating on form, release, follow through etc. Get really close to the butt, pick a spot and then close your eyes for a while before drawing and releasing. Really concentrate on what you are doing, without visual interruption. You'll be surprised at the results sometimes.

[Col]

For medium game, I use the inside ring of a standard 9" paper plate to determine my proficiency at a given (or unknown) range.  

For bunnies and such, I practice with softballs and baseballs.  Generally with targets that small you get a clean kill, or a clean miss.  O'course, sometimes you have to charge your target and give it the heel.

But that's the nature of the game, and part of hunting ethically...hunters need to know what they have to do if a shaft is sunk less than ideally.

It happens to the best of the best more often than you might think.

[fido dog]

I do well with the one shot deal. A guy that's been helping my learn will have me shoot one shot then set it down. He'll shoot then the grandkids then I'll take another shot. Usually 10-15 minutes between shots. My groups have been getting it the 3"-4" range at 15M. It's VERY good practice. It's not rare now to pull arrows out with one hand too.

Give it a "Shot".....hehe!

[Biggie Hoffman]

yep. One shot, in the lungs. The rest only show consistant form.

[Curveman]

Every morning for weeks before my bear trip I will go out on my deck and take that one shot cold. Prior to deer hunting I will take shots from a tower at 3D of varying distances. You're not really practicing for deer hunting in my area if you are not taking shots from a stand.  3D courses don't really replicate deer hunting for me but they are great prep for hog and javelina etc. I'll take multiple shots at plain old butts when I am working on release problems etc.

[Earl E. Nov...mber]

There is value in group size as Biggie says, it shows consistency of good form.. The first arrow is always the most important.
Fred used the 20 arrow game.. First arrow scores 105, all the rest 5 ea  total 200
Many say 6" is a Good Group.. I say 4" is a good group at 20. 6" is "OK"  4" is better.. Under 4" is good to really Good.

[broketooth]

the size of a soda bottle cap a@20 yrds should do it

[wingnut]

One of the best ways I've found to practice is roving in the woods.  I really don't like standing on level ground and shooting at a spot on a bale.  I usually carry a few old golf balls with me to shoot at.  Set em on a stump, roll em on the ground etc.

Light weight targets that are durable.  Use blunts or target pts.

I also shoot at a lot of small stobs sticking up.  Nothing more then a couple inches in diameter.

This is my way of saying replicate the shot you plan on taking and aim small.

Mike