Calling all machinist - brass inserts

[KentuckyTJ]

I have no idea why someone hasn't done this already but I would like to have the heavy weighted brass inserts for all my different aluminum arrow shaft sizes as well as some carbons (if all are not available). If I was a machinist and had the tools I would do this but since I'm not I was wondering if one of you guys would possibly have an interest to do this?

[Dave2old]

Indeed, Kentuk, someone should. I left aluminums and modular broadheads behind years ago in favor of woodies and fixed 2-blades. And I never even considered carbons. Only recently did I open the old closed mind to experimentation with both, thanks to Doc Ashby's tenacious and convincing work (once we quit arguing against it and actually give it a try for ourselves). When I tried to buy brass or steel inserts for a single 2413 alum shaft I bought to cut into pieces to experimentally sleeve the fronts of some woodies (for added strength, weight, and the option to use screw-in heads), the salesman chuckled and said none such were available. I figured they probably are available, just not at this local-yokel wheelie-bow shop. But if you say not, I'm sure you're more experienced in contemporary aluminums than I am, so there it is. But again, I agree we need brass and/or steel inserts for alum as well as carbon shafts. For two good reasons: aluminum (or, for Ozzie Clint and our other Brit friends, "al-U-min-e-um") inserts are weak and often fail, and, the more weight up front, the better for accuracy (up to a logical point, of course) and definitely for penetration. The carbon industry is way ahead on this. Brass or steel, or both is the only way to go for hardware. Right now as never before in my lifetime, there are market opportunities that will not only make a living for a few enterprising folk, but better bowhunting by making us more effective killers. dave

[Frank V]

Several suppliers have screw in points in up to 200grn weights. Would these work as well as the more expensive brass inserts? Frank

[Sharpster]

Tom and Dave, I couldn't agree more. Not only are all aluminum arrow shaft inserts made of aluminun, NONE are even made in the USA.

If there's an American machinist among us who can make steel inserts, I'll take 1000 pcs to start, and probably need 4000 or more each year.

 

Ron

[ArkyBob]

I'm finding the same thing out.  I would like to find an insert, brass or steel, that is glue in for my 2018's that are built for glue on broad heads.  I havn't been able to find them anywhere.  Best I can tell no one makes them.  If anyone know differently please let us know.  

BOB

[ozy clint]

 hey dave, it's spelt 'aloominum' LOL  

[JRY309]

I haven't seen any heavy inserts for aluminums,but they have inserts at Kustom King and 3Rivers that are PDP adjustable converta point inserts that allow the use of add on weights behind the inserts like carbons do.There might be a market for carbons,like say one size insert could fit GT's,Blackhawk Vapors,CE Heritage,Beman ICS and any other similar size carbon.One insert for all those carbons,aluminum you would have to make one for each size and have a market large enough to make money.

[Molson]

A problem straight off with this is making them a consistent weight with the different sizes you would need.

[Paul Mattson]

Time and Money, You will need a CNC machine.  Which would not cheap to have someone write a program and then produce a few 1000 inserts.  I have tried making some on a conventional lathe, but gave up after a couple hours.

[Earl E. Nov...mber]

Now is a good time to do it.. I have shops calling me every day looking for work.
You may have to do the math such a sizes, and weight
etc..
However 1000 pieces for a job shop, especially when they are that small and varied sizes, won't excite many shops.
You are really looking for someone with a small Swiss style turning center, and there will possibly be a tooling charge.

[Earl E. Nov...mber]

The other thing is that with aluminum shafts there are many different ID sizes, carbon a few. Just for an example,, 20XX shafts three popular sizes 16, 18 and 20's all take a different size.. How many of each do you want, in your 1000 pieces. 10K per size you can probably get a small shop to go for it.

[KentuckyTJ]

JRY309 I have some of the screw in deals. I see them as for testing purposes only and not for permanent use. They are hard to get perfectly straight and create wobble in the point end of the arrow (not a good thing).

Guys I am aware of the challenges but this is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and its time for someone with the tools and know-how to rise to the challenge for the better of the entire trad community.

Seriously, Bob has a good point I didn't think about. I don't use them but seems there is a glue on broadhead nitch as well. I know I would order at least a 100 of the screw in model right now of various sizes.

Come on forward thinking machinists where are you?????

[Tim Fishell]

What weights would you guys be interested in?  I am guessing that the challenges would out weigh the return but I will look into it.  Mainly because of all the different shaft diameters that you can get with aluminum arrows.  Then factor in all the different weights from 50 grains all the way to 200 or 300 grains and I am guessing one would never recoupe what they have in it.  But it would be a simple process and with a CNC lathe like we have here in the shop it wouldnt take much to turn out a few thousand.

[KentuckyTJ]

There you go Tim thanks for giving this a look.

I realize there are a ton of various sized aluminum shafts on the market. What about just looking at doing the 5 most popular sizes for a start?

I would be interested in 50 and 100 grain brass inserts for my Easton 2114's and 2016's.

For a price comparison it looks like 3 rivers sells a dozen of them for $13.99.

[KentuckyTJ]

If anyone has interest in this please post what aluminum shaft size(s) you would like to have a heavier brass insert for.

[KentuckyTJ]

Tim If you did take this on I can send you some old shafts so you would have them for measuring purposes.

[Rob DiStefano]

there are readily available alternatives for upping the arrow foc.  there are vendors like 3r and kk that offer 50 & 100 gr brass inserts, as well as steel screw-in tapered point/broadhead adapters that go up to 125gr.  i'm using 100gr brass inserts + 125gr steel adapters + 125gr ww heads for a 350gr front end package for beman and ad carbons.

[Tim Fishell]

Rob, but are these inserts available for aluminum shafts in the various sizes?  I think we are all aware that we can get pretty much anything we want for carbon shafts.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Tim Fishell:
Rob, but are these inserts available for aluminum shafts in the various sizes?  I think we are all aware that we can get pretty much anything we want for carbon shafts.

tom (and others) did mention the brass inserts need for carbons as well as the alums.  might also be able to retro-fit these to alums, too.  

if it's increased foc that's needed, just using 75, 100 or 125gr steel adapters will make a big difference, and those adapters alone will make a big foc difference for any arra, alums included.

[ArkyBob]

Rob, that's exactly what I'm looking for....more FOC.  I would like to add 75 to 100 gr. but with only using a one piece broadhead insert.  If I'm not mistaken my aluminum one piece inserts weigh about 38 gr. I would like to have one that weighed about 100 to 125 gr.  

BOB