Calling all machinist - brass inserts

[Rob DiStefano]

i vastly prefer to use 125gr glue-on broadheads, slow-set epoxied to 125gr steel adapters.  there's a better selection of glue-on heads, and this way it won't matter what shaft material yer using.

otherwise, you've got to go to a heavy insert or add some pdp back end insert weight (currently only 50gr max).

for me, in the long run i prefer carbons over alums - just a much more durble shaft material - but i can surely understand not wanting to change away from a great flying alum arrow.

[KentuckyTJ]

Rob, I am wanting these for screw in field points and broadheads. I like the versatility of being able to change head weight on the fly and not having to glue on.

I'm sure there is a market for these I can't be the only one out here.

[ArkyBob]

Rob, that's what I use except I use 135 gr. glue on broadheads.  I just weighed my adapter and it weighs 58 gr. So I'm shooting 193 gr up front.  I would like to try to get to somewhere around 250 or so much like you are shooting.  Do you have any suggestions for adding weight behind my adapter that would be effective and durable.

BOB

[Rob DiStefano]

"change head weight on the fly"?  not for me - heck, i get an arra to fly well outta a particular bow, i ain't changin' the foc!  i'll shoot that arra all the time, and just change out head type (broadhead, judo, field, blunt) but never ever the head weight.  to each their own and ymmv.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by ArkyBob:
Rob, that's what I use except I use 135 gr. glue on broadheads.  I just weighed my adapter and it weighs 58 gr. So I'm shooting 193 gr up front.  I would like to try to get to somewhere around 250 or so much like you are shooting.  Do you have any suggestions for adding weight behind my adapter that would be effective and durable.

BOB

yer a prime candidate for a steel adapter.

135gr point + 125gr steel adapter + 40gr alum insert = a heckuva lot more foc and overall arra weight.   :D

addendum - steel adapters are currently 75, 100 and 125gr

[ArkyBob]

That's my problem. My arrows fly great with my set up.  I just would like to "add" a little something up front and still get a great flying arrow.  I know by adding FOC I'll be starting all over again in finding correct spine by shortening arrow length but it's something I might try over the summer before I head back to Colorado in Sept.


BOB

[ArkyBob]

Thanks for the help Rob

BOB

[Bill Carlsen]

For what it is worth....many of the one piece bh adapters for aluminum are hollow and are easily filled with solder. On the other hand, the use of steel screw in adapters in various weights and the availability of various weight bhs makes adding FOC easy, as far as I can see. Another option is to check out the aluminum screw in inserts you currently use. Most of them have a small hole in the back that can be drilled out and tapped to accept a 10/32 or and 8/32 screw. I believe there is an artilcle in the latest TBM that describes this by Dennis Kamstra,

[KentuckyTJ]

Rob, Let's say I get a new bow and I have three different shafts already that I use in my other bows and am trying to get them to fly properly out of this new bow.  I like to be able to put on different head weights in testing these shafts. I started this thread and I didn't bring up the glue on issue at all. I realize there is a glue on option. The purpose of this thread is to help us screw in folks.

[ArkyBob]

Sorry TJ I didn't mean to change the thread, I just got caught up in the idea.  

BOB

[Dave2old]

Not to be a party pooper ... but could it be that aluminum shafts are becoming obsolete?

[KentuckyTJ]

No worries Bob all good discussion. I'm just trying to solve an issue I've wanted for a long time and it looks as if it may be on the right track.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by KentuckyTJ:
Rob, Let's say I get a new bow and I have three different shafts already that I use in my other bows and am trying to get them to fly properly out of this new bow.  I like to be able to put on different head weights in testing these shafts. I started this thread and I didn't bring up the glue on issue at all. I realize there is a glue on option. The purpose of this thread is to help us screw in folks.

my bad - i thought your statement about changing the heads on the fly was aimed at hunting, not for testing.  looks like yer gonna need to find a source for custom machined alum inserts - good luck!

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Dave2old:
Not to be a party pooper ... but could it be that aluminum shafts are becoming obsolete?

it's highly possible, just not within the next score of years, i'd think.  but for now, what's sorely lacking is a versatile array of heavy alum inserts, and due to all the different id and od spex for alums, it ain't gonna be easy or cheap to get that to happen.

thank goodness for carbons - those nasty black devils that are such a pain to tame for the trad bowhunter.  took me quite awhile to figure out what doesn't and does work for me.

[KentuckyTJ]

No problem Rob thanks for trying to help.

[dino]

Originally posted by Sharpster:
 Not only are all aluminum arrow shaft inserts made of aluminun, NONE are even made in the USA.

Ron,
Not sure where you got this information but there are alot of aluminum arrow shaft inserts that are made in the USA along with steel and brass which I have first hand knowlege of.

KentuckyTJ,
Although I am not a machinist I have about 9 years experience in the archery industry with about 25 years experience in retail sales and have overseen numberous arrow insert, points, weights systems and so forth from design to market.  One of my first of several that I personally designed was the 100 grain brass broadhead adapter for the CX shaft.  I designed it and saw it thru to marketing, so I have a good idea of how the whole process works and can get it done.

Having heavy inserts made for any carbon or aluminum shaft is not a problem and most of the time it can be done in a rather short time frame.  To be honest, I had given 100gr and 50gr brass inserts for aluminium shafting some consideration about 4 years ago.  The problem always came back to sales volume versus manufacturing costs.  Anybody can have an item made on a small scale, but the cost would prohibit sales.  I wouldn't pay $30 for a dozen inserts, so you have to manufacture a sizeable number (ie 1,000 10,000 ) to get the cost in a reasonable ballpark.  This is what keeps most everybody away from manufacturing them.  The number that you have to manufacturer versus the time you think that they will turn over or someone has to take a gamble and make them and take the risk of them sitting on a shelf and collecting dust. dino

[indianalongbowshooter]

Why not just buy some brass rod, thread it to fit in the back of your aluminum insert and cut it to the weight you need, a drop of epoxy on the threads and it should never come loose...should be fairly cheap to do also.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by indianalongbowshooter:
Why not just buy some brass rod, thread it to fit in the back of your aluminum insert and cut it to the weight you need, a drop of epoxy on the threads and it should never come loose...should be fairly cheap to do also.

that's like the pdp insert weights.  from my vantage point, that method isn't as effective as a heavy insert or adapter as the foc isn't gonna be as great due to placing that added insert weight behind the insert. i'd think it would take a long piece of brass (or whatever) to add on 100 grains, too.  probably could just use a big nail, chucked into hand drill, ground down one end to force fit the insert's rear threads, adjust the total weight as needed, don't bother cutting threads and just slow-set epoxy the whole thing together.  lotta work, imo.

[dino]

Originally posted by Dave2old:
Not to be a party pooper ... but could it be that aluminum shafts are becoming obsolete?

Dave that could be but because of their economic cost versus wood and carbon, I would bet they might be around for some time along with Eastons move to streamline the sizes in the gamegetter II series with sizes that match carbons (500,400,340,300) are making them a market contender.  Coupled with the fact of a trend toward heavier shafts, aluminums straightness, consistency specs and gpi make them a great shafting choice.  dino

[KentuckyTJ]

Dino, I would like 100 pieces right now and Ron (Mr. KME himself - aka Sharpster) has requested 1000 in his first order and 4000 per year. 3 rivers once told me they get this request often. If nothing else comes from this I would like someone to make me some. I have no idea if there is a huge market for one of the large corporations or not but for someone that has a CNC machine at their disposal this may be worth their time.