Grizzly El Grande 190

[Bullseye803]

Thinking about trying these broadheads. Just wanted to know about them, easy to sharpen, bloodtrails, penetration, etc. Thinking about adding 25 gr. screw in adapter and CX 150's 28". Recurve and longbow is 50#, does this seem ok?  

[loco_cacahuate]

I use the El Grande 150's , easy to sharpen once you get the hang of it, great penetration. Don't know about the carbon thing tho i use woodies.

peanut

[Terry Green]

TTT

[mrkbsm]

Bullseye - I've been hunting with the 145gr Grizzly this past year.  I think the El Grandes are just a tad bigger, and if I'm not mistaken they're a slightly tougher metal (and might take a few more strokes to get sharp).  They may seem like a bugger to sharpen at first, but if you follow the how-to's found on tradgang (I think there may be more than one even) you get the hang of it after one or two heads.  As for penetration... I never found my arrow back after shooting my deer this fall.  Right on through and lost - at least the doe was easy to find.  

[Rick McGowan]

I've been using them since they came out. They are among the best penetrating of all heads and maybe the strongest. It does take me a while to get a new dozen ready to hunt with using a file, but after that they are easy to touch up. They may be the best broadhead for the really big game. I like the heavy heads, because I need the weight to balance out my heavy arrows. If you don't need that much weight the 150 is the same size, but a bit thinner steel and the 160 is the thicker steel, but just slightly smaller. The 160 was the BEST penetrating head of any I tested.

[Ray Hammond]

I agree with rick. Hey Rick Ed Ashby gave me an AUTO BODY RASP...8 teeth per inch...I mounted it on a piece of molding just slightly larger than the width of the file itself.

I use it to 'set my edges' the first time..you would not believe how easy it is to get a griz ready for sharpening the first time when using one of these.

They are a little bit of money, and are used in the auto body trade to smooth out beaten out quarter panels after bondo is applied to get a new clean smooth appearance for painting.

[doctorbrady]

I have used the 160s as my main hunting head for the past couple of years.  It takes a little while to get used to sharpening them, but once you do, it's not too hard.  Penetration wise you won't beat 'em.  As far as blood trails go, they are not the best because of the slim profile.  Fortunately, many of them die in sight.  I shoot them with heavy carbon arrows and they fly great.

[Greyfox54]

Hey Ray , I am thinking of using them on a Cape Buff hunt and after reading Ed Ashby's report he recomends they be sharpened to 20 degrees , I am not sure how to determine this . also he says you should use helical fletch that matches the broadhead which I think is right helical , any recomendations , thanks , Fred

[Ray Hammond]

right helical is correct..20 degrees is just about even with the ferrule on the heads..in fact, I like to see that I am just removing the paint off the ferrule when I use the auto rasp to adjust the blade angle..that tells me I am real close. 20 to 22 degrees should be fine..22 is right at half of 45..and you can eyeball that pretty well.

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

The new production Grizzly BH's are being supplied with an angle of about 26 degrees. That's means A LOT less work is required when 'setting the edge' than on the older ones.

During penetration, it takes very good quality steel with a fairly high Rockwell hardness to HOLD the thin edge I prefer, but a broadhead that CAN hold that edge cuts with greater ease, and less resistance. The 190 Grizzly does that. All the 190's I've had tested have run between R52 to R55. That includes ones made by Harry Elburg, Jim Able as well as those of current production.

The data leaves no doubt. Because of the rotation induced, single bevel BH's commonly cause large bone splits (almost to the point that I could say 'routinely'). Double bevel BH's simply do not cause bone splits. I've observed not even a single example during all testing. To penetrate a bone, a double bevel BH must either cut the bone, or force its way through. That requires expendature of more of the arrow's (limited) force.

ON A BARE SHAFT, the modified 190 Grizzly (1" wide) makes one complete revolution in 15 3/8" of tissue penetration - a 'rotational rate' that is almost four times as fast as that of an arrow in flight. The arrow's rotation actually accelerates after tissue impact. During bone penetration, the BH/arrow rotation applies a significant 'torque force' on the bone, tending to cause large bone splits and allowing easier passage of the broadhead and shaft through the bone. Single bevels BH's are worth the effort required.

If fletching induced rotation and bevel induced rotation don't match, the arrow's rotation not only has to stop and reverse on impact, it has to ACCELERATE in the opposite direction (using up a lot of that precious 'limited energy'). That's why it's so important to match directions of rotation of fletching and BH bevel.

Grizzly = right bevel. Use right wing feathers.

Abowyer Custom = Left bevel. Use left wing.

Cheetah and Outback are available with either right OR left single bevel edges, as well as double bevel versions.

Ed

[Scooter Trash]

Dr. Ashby,  I always wondered about the rotation issue as I use left wing fletch and noticed thatthe shaft would have to reverse rotation upon contact.  Can you buy them with a left bevel or do I need to rework them by hand

[Ray Hammond]

It would be a lot easier to refletch I would think.

[Ray Hammond]

Doc,
I just received my 190 Abowyers..man, I LIKE these heads. Very sharp right from the factory..I have the cut to prove it just pulling it out of the plastic sleeve.

Looking forward to road testing next weekend.

Thanks, Ed.

[Scooter Trash]

I'd have to buy new clamps for the fletching jig.

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Paul, the Grizzly can't be made in left bevel. The two halves are asymetrical. A left-bevel version would require the manufacturer to get new tooling and dies; and expensive proposition. Refletching is the way to go.

Ray, glad the 190 Abowyers arrived. Though you would like their looks and quality. Wring them out. I'll be trying them on buff shortly. If they perform as well as their 'lettle brothers' they'll become my favored wide cut broadhead.

Ed

[alligatordond]

Dang!! Every arrow I have is left wing! Well I'm going to give the 190s a try on sharpening. If I can do it I may be calling Bob Burton for new arrows

[Greyfox54]

Thanks to Ray and Doc Ashby , I will have to change the fletch on my Grizzly stick Safaris . I only have left hand jigs . I have about 9 or 10 Grizzly 190's but have had them for a few years so no doubt they will require more work , do you recommend narrowing them down to 1" also ? And the million dollar question : how do I get fletching off of my arrows as they have wraps on them without ruining them ? Thanks for your input , Fred

[Steve H.]

I was unfamiliar with the Abowyer heads so I did a search.  $39 for 3, holy smokes!

[Ray Hammond]

if you are using wraps, you are in luck, Grayfox. Just dip the end of your arrow in really really hot water and the wrap will come unglued.  Clean with acetone ( if Safari Stik maker OK's that) or other product like perhaps Goof Off to get residue off, and you are ready to put a new wrap on and refletch.

But they are nice, Steve...real nice.

I went through the same thing a year ago, all my stuff was left wing, too. If doing it saves you one animal, say moose or squirrel, it will be worth it, right?

[Greyfox54]

Thanks Ray , I will do it , now I have to buy a right hand fletching jig and feathers , If I fail on a hunt I don't want it to be because I overlooked something I could had fixed . You really get so few shot opportunities compared to the time spent hunting , ( at least I do ) that you really have to make every shot count . My thoughts , Fred