Lets talk static tips

[overbo]

I've had a couple of recurves built w/ this limb design and for the life of me I could never get either one of them to shoot a bareshaft clean.I loved the silky smooth draw and the performance but never could shoot them w/ consistancy as my other bows.

[DanDaMan]

Did they shoot a fletched shaft?  I really dont understand all this fuss about bare shafts.  I shoot them with feathers on the back and if they fly well, I dont worry about it.  I understand the spine but there are just too many variables with trad to have accurate bare shaft testing.  If the arrow flys well then just shoot it and be happy about it.
Dan

[wingnut]

I've been playing with bareshafting recently.  Haven't been a big believer up too this point.  One thing I've noticed is you'd better have a bunch of different spines and point weights available.

If you just take a shaft and say this is the one and try to tune it, well it could be that it won't make the grade.  One thing about static is that they typically need more spine then you would think.  We have customers shooting our Orion curve at +20 on the spine scale.

Mike

[John Scifres]

I love statics and shoot them fine although I haven't bareshafted anything since I shot a compound.  I know you know how to tune a bow but I find it hard see that it's the design that causes the inconsistency.  Some other factor almost has to be at play.  Dont give up.  They are worth it for the cool factor alone  

[O.L. Adcock]

"I really dont understand all this fuss about bare shafts. I shoot them with feathers on the back and if they fly well, I dont worry about it."

Yep, I don't see the fuss sighting in a rifle, sharpening BH's, or practicing either!  

I don't know what you were doing, tuning a selfbow or a compound is the same thing. You must be using the "kick" method? Mike,Only if you are way off to start with. Lots of point weights are needed but other then that if they are within 15-20# they'll tune. The arrow manufactures love folks that shotgun shafts till they get lucky....O.L.

[Curveman]

Well I believe that you can paper test with feathers and different spines and noc points etc. and not be as negligent as "not sighting in a rifle, sharpening BH's or practicing either!" Some would argue that after bareshaft testing you are changing the dynamic when you add feathers so that the one that bareshaft tested better may not yield the best feathered flight, no? You're only eliminating one varaible by testing with feathers. Of course I may be wrong.  

[O.L. Adcock]

Curveman, Lots of misunderstanding over this driven by many "in the know"...Paper tuning and the bare shaft "kick" method are EXACTLY the same thing so you can't say one works and the other does not. For most people using these methods they wind up over spined and won't know it until they try to shoot wide broadheads the first time.

The planning method can be done with bare shafts or fletched broadheads...Both are EXACTLY the same process..So folks can't say one works and the other doesn't. Either of these done right will result in the best tune physicaly possible unlike the kick and paper methods.

As for statics being hard to tune...Any given bow of any type can be more sensitive to "form" then another. That's why it's important to use a tuning method that seperates form problems from tuning problems. Other wise you try to fix things that aren't broke.....O.L.

[wingnut]

OL,

That's only true if you don't care about FOC.  If you have your heart set on 20+% FOC like someone is saying. LOL  You then need to start with enough spine to play with.  If you have a 45# ACX and 45-60 carbon shafts.  You will play heck trying to get any FOC with an arrow that is over 10 gpp.

You have to have a goal other then make this shaft work sometimes.

Mike

[Roy Steele]

I don't know for sure because I don't do this.But I've been told,you have to be closer to the correct splind if over center shot or not center shot.But with selfbows even if I paper shoot them and get them rihgt.I'll still have to change my arrows a little when I add feathers.So I don't bare shaff.
   My bare shaff if you have to change anyway.But I can tell you why.A 100 years ago when I made an shot recurves.I use to do the same thing with the bare shaffing.
   For the life of me I just coulded gey them to d o it.I went an saw this old bowyer that built selfbows.He looked my bow over,nice bow,I'd built a half dozzen recurves.Thuoght I was the man.I told him the problem,with out even takeing a breath he said not's tikker right.One limbs quicker than the other.
  He put it on his tillering board thatrhad a grid patteren behind it. Sure enough back at full draw my tipa were'nt even.SO have it checked out.could be your problem.

[O.L. Adcock]

Yep Mike, hitting a specific "target" can be tough, you'd better know your stuff. 10gpp is a piece of cake, usually wind up 12-14, getting 10-12 is much harder IMO....

Don't get me wrong guys, I could careless how one tunes their bow as long as they do. Part of the problem is KNOWING whether it's tuned or not. The test is step back to however far you can keep all of your fletched field tips on a plate. If you can't keep bare shafts or wide fletched matched weight BH's on the same plate, you got tuning problems. To ignore it fits into "compound" logic...

Some of the things I've heard...

"I shoot WW's or Grizleys cause I can't get anything wider to fly"....Compounder..."I shoot mechanicals cause I can't get fixed blades to fly"...Same logic, same excuse.

"I just shoot them till I learn where they shoot"...Compounder..."I just move my sights"....Same thing.....

"I just use big feathers and don't worry about it"..Yep, fits in with the mechanical heads.

"I just get closer"...What ever your bare shafts or wide broadheads are doing coming out of the bow, so are your field tips. You just can't "see" it cause the fletched arrows correct too fast for you to see. That doesn't mean they are going where pointed. The poorer a person is tuned, the worse their pentration will be the closer they are.

Folks want "easy"...Shoot a compound....Want simple, our bows are great but easy and simple are not the same thing. We have to work harder at everything, and that includes tuning.....O.L.

[zwickeyman]

I'll tell you why I bareshft. I shoot with feathers and hunt in the Pacific N.W. Good chance after a few days of daylight to dark in the brush and the rain my feathers are laying down. Don't matter what I put on them. So I need them to fly perfect to shoot with very little feather help. After I tune, I can shoot a 3d with bareshafts and through paper with feathers I still get perfect flight.

[zwickeyman]

I'd bet money that O.L. could shoot a 3D with bareshafts also. Every one is so hung up broadheads for penetration, first and formost your arror has to enter the body straight to keep up the momentum. You see alot of guys with poor arrow flight and it's B.S. that they are OK with that. (IMHO)

[Shawn Leonard]

Have to agree with Zwickeyman, I see a lot of guys saying how well their arrows fly and to me it is attrocious. I can shoot my bareshafts out to 30 yards when I have them tuned to the bow. I find it pretty easy to tune carbons, if I want a lot of FOC I go up to the next spine group and add a bunch of point weight until I hit it right. I say this to get back to the static limb question, as all my bows but one have static tips. Shawn

[zwickeyman]

Overbo,

   Some bows are easier to get perfect flight then others. I have had 2 static tips and 1 came real easy(Ballistic) and the other was some work(Border). I think the Borders limbs were a little out of tiller but it still shot sweet, just needed more work to get great arrow flight.

   Keep it up!! You'll get there.

[overbo]

I always liked the ideal of static tips but does the design make tillering more difficult?
The 2 static bows I had would send a bareshaft straight into the ground at 10yrds.I've tried arro's of 25lbs spine difference and point weight from 125/200grs w/ very little improvement.
The experience w/ this design has steered my away from them now.

[zwickeyman]

Are you shooting split or 3 under. The bareshaft process is the same but the timing of some limbs makes a difference. To be honest I don't know that much about tiller and timing, I have never built a bow. I just know how important good flight is to accrucy and penetration, so I work extremely hard at achieving it.

  What brand bows do you have, what are their weights and how far cut to center are they?

[wingnut]

I spent the afternoon working on bareshafting my 45 @ 28" Orion recurve.  I decided to try a string with less mass.  And notice that my arrows that were tuned were now flying a little weak.

So out came the bareshaft.  Ended up having to drop my point weight from 200 to 160.  This gave me a dynamic spined arrow of 60#.  After we were done I was working with the dynamic spine calculator and ran some 2016 shafts.  Ended up with a 29" arrow with 125 gr point and 60# dynamic spine.  Took a bare shaft out and shot the 3 D course at the house.  I was holding kill zones out to 25 yds.

So now I have two arrows that shoot the same out fo the same bow and the means to design many more combos.

Here's the download link to the calculator.  It's pretty easy too use and seems to be dang accurate.

 http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/[email protected]/vwp2?.tok=bceRJecBj15UbCko&.dir=/Public&.dnm=Dynamic+Spine+Calculator+Rev1.xls&.src=bc  


Mike

[overbo]

I'm sure the bow make is irrelavent to my experience.I was wondering if this design is more acceptable to tillering problems when ones shooting form is compromised?I now have many bows of different limb design and been able to bareshaft tune all of them.Some a little more tough to tune than others.
I'm sure my shooting form comes more into play more than anything else but my findings show some bows are alot more forgiven to my shooting flaws.

[O.L. Adcock]

Overbow, "I always liked the ideal of static tips but does the design make tillering more difficult?
The 2 static bows I had would send a bareshaft straight into the ground at 10yrds.I've tried arro's of 25lbs spine difference and point weight from 125/200grs w/ very little improvement."

Shouldn't be the "design"...Into the ground...I assume diving into the ground? That's nock set position, not spine, most likely too low and the tail of the arrows are hitting the shelf. Arrow nocks too tight on the string will cause it too.

Some statics can be sensitive to bow hand position and that does relate to tiller. I don't know how you are holding them but a high wrist provides the least/most consistant contact...O.L.

[overbo]

O.L ,
I climbed that knock up & down that serving like a monkey in a bannana tree.That grip was a high wrist and the bowyer told me he centers his tillering.