help- i'm having trouble making flemish strings.

[ozy clint]

i can twist up both loops just fine but the string itself ends up being two bundles twisted around each other instead of being round. i've tried pre twisting the two bundles the opposite direction to way i twist the loops but no different. what am i doing wrong?

[monterey]

I'm having trouble with your description but, FWIW, I use three bundles.

[jmc334]

I back twist after I make the first loop (12 for me) then as I twist the second it works itself out straight. I then twist the string.

LBR on here owns Champion bowstrings and has a DVD (doin' the twist) that helped me a lot. 3rivers and recurves.com has it.

[metsastaja]

doin the twist is a very good dvd i got it and improved my string making a lot.

[razorback]

Clint. I am having the same trouble and hopefully someone can give an answer to our problem. May have to look for a copy of Doing the twist.

[A.S.]

I would say you either put too many or too few twists in. I had the same problem on one string when I first started.

[CJC]

make sure that your back twist is going in the opposite direction then you are twisting.  if that fails, then you are either using too much back twist or not enough.  when you have formed both loops and are ready to twist the string up, the two bundles should have no twist in them.  in other words they are neutral.  if that fails contact me and i will make some for you.  going into the string making gig on the side.  hope that helps-

[macbow]

ozy clint. I don't know without a picture what the problem is. That sounds normal to me. I don't do any back twists or anything when doing the second end. It should look somewhat like a barber pole after putting some twists in when finished.

3 bundles should make a rounder string but, but it doesn't really matter.
Ron

[SL]

If you dont back twist after the first loop is made it will look like two seperate ropes wrapped around each other.
SL

[ozy clint]

SL nailed my problem    
the string ends up with the two bundles twisted around each other like a helix without a round cross section. like two wires twisted together.

i just had another go. i put 25 twists in the opposite direction that i twisted the 2nd loop but it still didn't end up round.
CJC said that the bundles should be untwisted after forming both loops. thats not happening for me.

also do all the pro string makers use a machine to twist the loops or are all flemish strings hand made?

[yaderehey]

If you braid your loops by twisting the top strand away from yourself and bringing it towards you and down you need to back-twist clock-wise after the first loop is formed.  I usually use 30 to 35 back-twists.  You need to back-twist each lay separately and all the back-twists need to be beyond the first 7&1/2 to 8&1/2 inches you use to make the second loop.  If you do your 25 twists from the very end of the lay and 10 of your back-twists end up in that very first section you will really only have 15 back-twists working for you.  I like to hook the first loop over something solid and hold the lays straight as I put in the back-twist without stretching too much.  If you do it this way you should end up with a single rope and not two ropes twisted together.  Hope this is helpful.

[wtpops]

I back twist each bundle 15 times each .

[ozy clint]

yaderehey- i twist the loops as you say in your first sentence. holding the loop in my left hand and twisting with my right. to clarify the direction of the back twist- is it the same as the way the bundles are twisted or opposite. i interpret the way you back twist as the same twist as the bundles. i have also been back twisting from the end of the bundles. oops.

[ozy clint]

also having trouble working out the strand length needed for a string. how do you work out strand length for a 58"AMO recurve? no i haven't got a jig. i want to know how to do it without relying on a jig. can't seem to allow for shrinkage due to all the twists. is there a formula. i have old strings to use as a guide for length.
thanks

[Shaun]

Here's how I do it: After completing the first loop, I straighten and tension the two bundles with the first loop hooked over something. Then, I make my back twists the SAME direction as I make my twist for making the cordage - not the opposite direction. This works out because once I have made the correct number of twists for the second loop, I fold the string back and blend in the tag ends. Now I am twisting the string between the loops the same way as before but have reversed the string as I twist and cord in the tag ends thus unwinding my pre twists. I find about 25 twists is correct for me.

Clear as mud? Try it and you will find it works.

I twist the strands by rolling between my thumb and finger away (the top of the bundle away or clockwise if you are looking at the loose end and are right handed) and folding the bundle up and towards me. Then I move my left hand grip up a smidge to hold this twist and do the same with the other bundle.

If you do it prefect it will end up with flat untwisted strands between the loops. There will be some twist of the bundles between the loops the wrong way that will unwind and then wind the correct way as you twist the whole string in the direction the cordage lays near the loops.


String length can be done without a jig by making one loop and putting it over the nock of the bow. Stretch your bundles towards the other end and do the pre twisting as described. Now pinch the two bundles about an inch longer than you want the string (you are going to loose some length when you cord the tag ends in ~ one inch). When you cut your bundles, make them about 18 inches longer than the bow. Offset or trim the first loop ends staggered so they blend in after making the loop. When you make the second loop you can just start dropping strands after a couple inches of tag end blending. Leave them hanging out and trim after the string is done.

For a recurve I like to make my string end up about 4 inches shorter than nock to nock (AMO). 58" AMO would be a 52" actual finished string length.

It takes some practice to make the string look as nice as the pros, but you'll get there.

[Danny Roberts]

Look up John Scifres site - great !

[yaderehey]

Originally posted by ozy clint:
yaderehey- i twist the loops as you say in your first sentence. holding the loop in my left hand and twisting with my right. to clarify the direction of the back twist- is it the same as the way the bundles are twisted or opposite. i interpret the way you back twist as the same twist as the bundles. i have also been back twisting from the end of the bundles. oops.

If you are twisting the way I described and looked at the string from the end (that you are working on) you see you are twisting each individual lay counter-clockwise before you bring it clockwise over the other lay.  When back-twisting clockwise (as in this example) you are adjusting for the counter-clockwise twisting of each individual lay, not the clockwise twisting of the lays around each other.

[Molson]

When I'm getting close to the end of my tapers I make sure to keep any twist from running down the individual bundles.  I use a piece of string to tie off the loop at the end of the tapers to keep it from running into the bundles while I work the other loop.  Also, its important to keep an even tension to the twist in each bundle when forming the loops. If one bundle ends up longer than the other, the longer bundle will just wrap around the shorter one.

[bsigal]

Check out this website.  It'll give you all the info that you need.

 www.geocities.com/salampsio/flemish1.htm

[Jeff Strubberg]

Don't put any twist in them at all.

Make the first loop, then STOP and comb all the twist out of the string all the way to the opposite end.  Now make your second loop.

Otherwise you end up with reverse twist in the string from the first loop.  Not only won't your strings come out smooth, you can watch that seccond loop untwist when you put tension on the string!  Yikes!