Author Topic: Is phenolic evil? (Read 1054 times)

Red Boar · « **on:** April 05, 2009, 10:58:00 PM »

I've seen guys who are selling bows make a point of saying "no phenolic". Is phenolic considered bad? A shortcut to add strength? A cheaper material than using wood laminates? What exactly is it and what are the downsides? Thanks.

Benny Nganabbarru · « **Reply #1 on:** April 05, 2009, 11:13:00 PM »

Nope, it sure isn't evil! Evil is a whole other philosophical kettle of fish, and I'm pretty sure phenolic isn't on the official list of evil things.

Phenolic is compressed linen, methinks.

It comes under the topic of aesthetics - some people don't like it, others do. I like a broad variety of bows, some with phenolic, others without.

The "No phenolic" (similar to the "No CNC") advertising, is just another not-so-subtle crack at Black Widow, as they are renowned for their use of phenolic in their bows these days (although you can request their larger recurves without it). One thing is for sure: Whilst Black Widow bows will forever be knocked by some, I don't think anybody is game to knock the achievements made by folks around the world with Black Widow bows in their hands.

Benny Nganabbarru · « **Reply #2 on:** April 05, 2009, 11:18:00 PM »

Oh, unless it is in an advertisement in the TradGang classifieds, in which case the owner is simply being clear about what his BW bow is made from (reading back, I wasn't sure if you were referring to ads in magazines or private classifieds).

Red Boar · « **Reply #3 on:** April 05, 2009, 11:45:00 PM »

Thanks, Ben. Yes, I was referring to the TradGang classifieds. Of course, I didn't really think it was evil...just trying to get some attention to the topic.

I am having a "bumble bee" Super Shrew made up...it will be Osage and either Ebony or phenolic. Just wanted to make sure there were no downsides to the phenolic.

Straitshot · « **Reply #4 on:** April 05, 2009, 11:49:00 PM »

"Phenolics are the result of polymerization between resin and a base material that can be paper, glass or cotton. The base material used is dependent upon the intended application of the finished product. Paper phenolics are used in the manufacturing of electrical components such as punch-through boards and household laminates. Glass phenolics are particularly well suited for use in the high speed bearing market."

Many bow makers have used phenolics for years. I can remember it in bows from the late 60's to present. It is very stable and is less effected by atmospheric conditions, such as humidity, than wood. It also adds weight to the bow which for some can be good or bad depending upon personal choices.

IronCreekArcher · « **Reply #5 on:** April 05, 2009, 11:59:00 PM »

I love my phenolic Black Widow...it is another great addition to the traditional bowyers arsenal...some know how to use it well in their products while others don't. Just my .02 cents.

Red Boar · « **Reply #6 on:** April 06, 2009, 12:10:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Straitshot:
"Phenolics are the result of polymerization between resin and a base material that can be paper, glass or cotton. The base material used is dependent upon the intended application of the finished product. Paper phenolics are used in the manufacturing of electrical components such as punch-through boards and household laminates. Glass phenolics are particularly well suited for use in the high speed bearing market."

Many bow makers have used phenolics for years. I can remember it in bows from the late 60's to present. It is very stable and is less effected by atmospheric conditions, such as humidity, than wood. It also adds weight to the bow which for some can be good or bad depending upon personal choices.

Good explanation...so, what do bowyers use as their base material?

amar911 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 06, 2009, 01:14:00 AM »

I have a Bumblebee Shrew Classic Hunter with Osage and phenolic and also with a Bow Bolt. You will love it!

Allan

zwickeyman · « **Reply #8 on:** April 06, 2009, 01:22:00 AM »

I like bows with alot of mass weight and Phenolic can really help get some added weight on a riser. I have a target bow made by Gerald Hickman, he made the entire riser out of Linen Phenloic. It is a very stable bow in the hand.

Benny Nganabbarru · « **Reply #9 on:** April 06, 2009, 01:55:00 AM »

I bet that Shrew will look "wicked-deadly"!

2treks · « **Reply #10 on:** April 06, 2009, 07:43:00 AM »

Most bow makers use linen based phenolic.It is used on the tips for f/f build up and in the riser for mass and looks. Paper based is what you may find on some of the tips of older bows from the late fifties and early sixties. It would tend to crack at the tip, between string grooves on the back side.
Chuck

JRY309 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 06, 2009, 07:55:00 AM »

The place I here no phenolic is on Black Widow where they use it in their limb wedges.I believe you pay extra for wood in the limb wedges.It doesn't bother me any te use of phenolic.

hunt it · « **Reply #12 on:** April 06, 2009, 08:36:00 AM »

My new Morrison Shawnee riser is 100% phelonic NO WOOD and so far the hogs think it's real evil! I love it - each to his own.

Bill Carlsen · « **Reply #13 on:** April 06, 2009, 08:48:00 AM »

Next to my DAS bow this is my favorite. It is a custom made (for me) Groves 56" take down. I had it made with 100% black phenolic. The weight and density of the phenolic make it super stable. I have put the same limbs on wood risers and they do not shoot as well as on the phenolic riser. There is nothing "evil" about phenolic risers.

Red Boar · « **Reply #14 on:** April 06, 2009, 09:13:00 AM »

Great replies...thanks.

WildmanSC · « **Reply #15 on:** April 06, 2009, 09:47:00 AM »

Phenolic in a riser is recommended by Craig Warren, the designer of the bow bolt, for use with the bow bolt for a 2-PC T/D bow. It is in fact stronger than the woods around it, unless the riser is built of 100% phenolic.

Bill

Dartwick · « **Reply #16 on:** April 06, 2009, 10:32:00 AM »

I think the deal is some people enjoy and appreciate wood.

Theres nothing evil about metal risers either but many people dont care for them.

Morning Star · « **Reply #17 on:** April 06, 2009, 11:45:00 AM »

Quote

I think the deal is some people enjoy and appreciate wood.

Yep, I've ordered a couple widow takedowns without the phenolic. I just don't care for the look of their bows with the black wedges.

vermonster13 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 06, 2009, 11:51:00 AM »

Yes it is evil. It is made out of Demon Horn and the only glue that will set with it is made from the hooves of the Mares of Diomedes.

Sant-Ravenhill · « **Reply #19 on:** April 06, 2009, 02:02:00 PM »

Thank you vermonster13 for the straight facts surrounding phenolic. And thanks much for the laugh!

As someone else said, they just like wood. I love the beauty and grain evident in a bow made of the beautiful native and exotic woods we have available.

I'm sure the bows today that are made of phenolic with fiberglass and foam cored limbs are excellent bows. They would be super while hunting in a steady downpour; but bowyers please keep making bows that utilize wood in the riser and limbs.


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Author Topic: Is phenolic evil? (Read 1054 times)

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