assembling carbon arrows

[wharvey]

I would like to make the move to carbon arrows but have a question as to how to assemble them.  I make woodies and aluminum. On the aluminum I've seen using the standard old fashion shafts. Glue the nock on the taper end, glue in an insert, fletch and you're finished.

I am thinking about either gold tips or the Carbon Express Predator II shafts sold by Braveheart. In other words, the less expensive shafts.

What is used to assemble these shafts, is it like the aluminum or ??? At this point I'm not worried about  tuning at this point, just what components do I need to get to put them together?  

Confused with the new technology.   :confused:

[Rob DiStefano]

the shafts, press-in nocks, inserts (to accept screw-in points), feathers, fletch tape (highly recommended!) or an appropriate glue.

in other words, really not much different from alums (save for the press-in nocks).

i just made a half dozen carbon judos for next weekend's whittingham shoot ... have fun, too!

[Rob DiStefano]

i'll add a postscript - selecting carbon shafts that'll work with yer bow(s) and you is, imho, a bit daunting as compared to alums.  don't rely on the manufacturer's spine charts!  you may find going weaker in spine and adding more front end weight will make for a more forgiving arrow.

[longbow1]

I have been shooting carbons for 12 years, and totally agree with Rob's postscript.

[SteveB]

What Rob said.

Also post your bow make, draw wght and length, and targeted arrow wght total and you will get some great responces for narrowing your choice.

Steve

[wharvey]

Thanks for the info.

I have 2 bows and I know I'll need to make 2 different arrows.

One is a Howatt Hunter - 35 lbs at 28

The other is a Martin Hatfield - 55 lbs at 28

My draw length is about 29.5. I'd like to go about 10 gr. per inch and figure 150 gr. heads.

[Hattrick]

I think the only real difference is needing a high speed cutter for length.. Most glues that work on alum or wood work on carbon..

[ishoot4thrills]

Originally posted by Hattrick:
I think the only real difference is needing a high speed cutter for length.. Most glues that work on alum or wood work on carbon..

I use hotmelt on my aluminum inserts. Does that work for carbon inserts too?

[GRINCH]

Glue your carbon inserts.

[Rob DiStefano]

you can use a fine tooth saw to cut carbon shafts, then trim up and bevel with 120 grit or so.  i use a dremel with a carbide cutoff wheel and then true up with a rotary sander and 120 grit.

for inserts and any glue-on point adapters i always use slow set epoxy - there is no guess work and no failures, ever.

ymmv.

[McDave]

Hotmelt works fine on carbon inserts.  I use the same hotmelt I use on my aluminum shafts.  We normally add internal weights to the carbon shafts for tuning purposes, and the hotmelt works great for changing weights: just hold in boiling water for 15 seconds or so, and pull out the insert.

[Rob DiStefano]

i don't like mixing heat with carbon, so inserts are glued in permanently with slow set epoxy.  i alter the point weight by choosing point and adapter weights that'll yield a good gpp and foc for a particular holding draw weight.  again, if point + adapter is needed, i glue in with slow set epoxy - which can be easily debonded with flame heat.  i have screw-in point weights on hand for every "stock" weight from 125 thru 250 grains, and i use slip on modified nuts that weigh 20 grains for added testing weights.

[Mo. Huntin]

Rob we are going to need a picture or atleast a good explanation on the slip on nut thing it sounds handy.

[Hattrick]

when i heat up the insert or abstract it, i put a field tip in it to keep the heat off the shaft by heating the tip

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Hattrick:
when i heat up the insert or abstract it, i put a field tip in it to keep the heat off the shaft by heating the tip

laminated carbon/glass fibers are *very* sensitive to heat, doesn't matter whether it's directly or indirectly applied.  i've worked enuf with carbon, graphite and 'e' and 's' glass to keep heat out of the equation.  but, ymmv.

[Ray Hammond]

Rob,
didn't you mean to say go HIGHER in spine and add more tip weight? Or am I reading that incorrectly?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Ray Hammond:
Rob,
didn't you mean to say go HIGHER in spine and add more tip weight? Or am I reading that incorrectly?

no, i did state (and mean) going lower in spine and adding on more front end weight.  this knowledge is what works for me and the results of spending hundreds of carbon shaft dollars and dozens of arrow building and testing hours.  

i found that the listed carbon spine rating ranges (isn't it at least strange that only carbon shafts have 'spine ranges' instead of precise spine numbers as found with alums and woodies?), did not work for me and all were far too high in spine for my 46-55 pound longbows.

i'm using a .500 spine carbon for 43, 46, 51 and 55 pound holding weight (29") longbows.  front ends are 175 - 350 grains total (including brass or alum inserts).  by all the charts i should be using at least .400's, maybe even .350's.  

the only exception for me are the ad trads - they just work for all my bows regardless of whatever spine those puppies are and no matter what the foc.
 
again, this is what i found for me, these are my opinions, and ymmv.

[Over&Under]

I must agree with Rob, I have found that the spine ranges are far too stiff for my low 50's weight bows.  I drop down to a lower spine and weight up the front for good arrow flight.

Rob - ymmv?

[Ray Hammond]

Interesting.

I use 75-90'ish shafts and load up the front with 300+ grains and it reduces the spine to work with my bows..in the 60-65 lb range.

Are you cutting the shaft length down? Bows cut to center?

You learn sumtin every day on TG.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by over&under:
... Rob - ymmv?

Your Mileage May Vary   :D