New wooden arrow point loading and internal footing jig!

[martin guy]

Sounds good Rob!
If people would be interested Braveheart may start stocking 1" and 2" lengths of 1/8" tungsten. One inch = 50 grains and two inch = 100 grains. This is the heaviest stuff I could find, it is also strong, you can't cut it with normal tools.

Andy

[Rob DiStefano]

personally, i think going the tungsten route is a bit much.  i'd rather just mic and match the drill bit with an iron or brass nail foot.  

fwiw, reaming out the resulting jig hole with a slightly larger diameter bit, and going deeper, is pretty easy to do.  i think getting upwards of 100 grains added front end weight is quite attainable.

[Billy]

OH Goodie, now I can ask!!

If the tungsten is 1/8", are there any thoughts or plans for a 5/16" guide?

Is 5/16 too small to work with?

[SlowBowinMO]

Using the 9/64" bit supplied, you can insert anything about 1/8" and get a snug fit but still have room for glue to adhere.  You can go deeper too, once you have used the jig, you set the jig aside and use the hole you just made with the jig to guide you deeper still, just be careful doing it.

Billy, no plans for a 5/16 just yet.  We don't believe the demand would be strong enough to justify them, and I believe you'd need to go smaller with the insert as well, kind of defeating the purpose to some extent.  Maybe we can look into 5/16" it further down the road.

[Orion]

Wrapping a 5/16 shaft with a layer or two of one-inch wide masking tape will give a tight fit in the jig.  Can do the same thing to make a 11/32 shaft fit snugly into a 23/64 hole.

[Rob DiStefano]

using the 11/32" jig with 5/16" shafts ...

my poc 5/16" test shaft measures an average of .319" at the business end.  1-1/2 wraps of 3m masking tape makes for a nice fit into the jig.  drilled the nail hole, no problem - then reamed it out for a full 2-1/8" hole.  the drill is .139" in diameter, the nail is .130" in diameter.  tapered the shaft, epoxied in the nail and 100 grain field point.  the raw shaft, cut for a perfect 29" length, digitially weighed in at 296 grains.  after gluing in the footing, point and nock, the shaft (sans feathers and finish) weighs 465 grains.

this works very well, indeed - nothing tricky about using the 11/32" jig and a 5/16" shaft.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[martin guy]

We are going to up the size of the 11/32 jig to .358 up from .3437. From what we are seeing, it should be a good compromise, let me know what you guys think, feedback is always welcome!

Andy

[Rob DiStefano]

makes sense to up the jig shaft diameter for 11/32" shafts.    

[martin guy]

Rob,
If you like, send yours back to Tim and he will get you a new one sent out, this applies to anyone who is having trouble.
The only downside I see is if you do actually get  a shaft that is a true 11/32, you may have to wrap it with tape or something, easier to do that than to sand I reckon!
I am also going to add a "step" at the very bottom of the hole (near where the drill bit comes through) so if you taper your arrow first, it should act as an alignment aid. You will still be able to use arrows without tapers, just as now, however, if you do get one that is a true 11/32 and you put your point taper on the arrow the step should hold it. The only draw back I have seen with tapering first is a little splitting right at the end where there is very little wood, if I go slow with a sharp bit it is minimized.

Thanks guys!

[Benny Nganabbarru]

Lookin' forward to having a play!

[Mohawkbows]

Got mine tonight, tried it on about 50 shafts and only found two that didn't fit well. Maybe the drier climate here in Colorado? Drilled one that was already tapered and it worked great, get some time and I will find the right depth/weight/FOC for my setup.

[martin guy]

Glad to hear it Vince! I think it is going to be a trade off as far as sizing goes, I think it will be easier for guys to wrap some tape or saran wrap on the arrow than to sand them down.....

Thank you!

Andy

[martin guy]

Jigs are done! The tool supply store is supposed to have more bits in today, (bought them out) the jigs should ship later today or tomorrow morning.

Thanks everybody!

Andy

[Benny Nganabbarru]

G'day fellows,

A thought occured to me as I pondered this front-loading business; it was while wondering if I could, even with the high spines available from  www.surewoodshafts.com  , get an arrow stiff enough for my 80# @ 28", cut-past-centre Silvertip (the plate on which I have recently replaced with a much thicker piece of leather); so, my thought:

Could this jig also help load the rear of the shaft, like the GoldTip carbons allow for? Far less weight is required at the rear in order to stiffen the shaft than is required at the front in order to weaken it, according to the boys at Black Widow who've fiddled with this sort of thing a lot, and according to my mate Matt Wright who has rear-loaded his GoldTips in order to keep them stiff-enough and achieve a heavy arrow. So, has anyone tried this? Is there something inherently dangerous about the idea? If it is safe, it would be a big help to those of us silly-enough to shoot heavy bows and who want to shoot really heavy front-loaded arrows (my Douglas firs are doing really well with just 160 grains up-front, and I'm confident with them for anything in this country other than buffalo).

A penny for your collective thoughts, if you will.

Thanks,

Ben

[Benny Nganabbarru]

By the way, I've never made my own wooden arrows, but am going to give it a go. So, if I have overlooked something glaringly-obvious, like nock-fit, please point out my error.

[Rob DiStefano]

yes, years ago i rear loaded woodies with nails to stiffen up the spine.  only took about 1.5" of 3/32" nail.  this jig works great for loading either end.

[martin guy]

That is a great idea Ben!

Andy

[SlowBowinMO]

Ben that will absolutely work, and adding weight to the rear does stiffen an arrow up.

About the only down side is it would work against your FOC, but proper tuning and spine trumps FOC every time!   :D

[Benny Nganabbarru]

Tim, I think it might not work too much against the FOC, because, as I recall from watching the Black Widow tuning DVD, far less weight needs to be placed at the back in order to stiffen an arrow than needs to be placed at the front to weaken it.

So, for me and my heavy Silvertip, say if I got the heaviest-spined Douglas fir shaft, and put 150 grains up-front, and it was too weak, then 50 grains at the back may well strengthen it right-up, dynamically. So, I'd end-up with a total of 310 grains up-front including the broadie, and 50 grains plus the nock and feathers at the back.

Well, that's the theory as I understand it. It remains to test it, of course!

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Ben Kleinig:
Tim, I think it might not work too much against the FOC, because, as I recall from watching the Black Widow tuning DVD, far less weight needs to be placed at the back in order to stiffen an arrow than needs to be placed at the front to weaken it.

So, for me and my heavy Silvertip, say if I got the heaviest-spined Douglas fir shaft, and put 150 grains up-front, and it was too weak, then 50 grains at the back may well strengthen it right-up, dynamically. So, I'd end-up with a total of 310 grains up-front including the broadie, and 50 grains plus the nock and feathers at the back.

Well, that's the theory as I understand it. It remains to test it, of course!

you are correct, ben ,,, i'll repeat ...

only took about 1.5" of 3/32" nail.