Heavy carbon suggestions

[bohuntr]

Ok guys I am ready to give carbons another try. I would like to find some carbons that are in the 600 -- 700gr range that will work with my bow without resorting to stuffing the shafts or adding heavy adapters. I currently shoot 31" 2020's out of my Robertson Vision Falcon. The 2020's weigh right at 600grs. My draw weight is approx 70lbs @ my draw length of 29 1/2". I would like to keep using a 125gr broadhead because I have so many of them but I am guessing that I may have to go up in head weight in order to get carbons that are heavy enough and spined right. I like the thinner shaft diameter of carbons and the added durablility but I am not a tinkerer and I want to get something I can simply buy and setup with a minimum of screwing around. Best case scenerio I would like to get an arrow that weighs between 650 and 700grs. In tuning my bow in the past with aluminum arrows it seems to like a spine range covered by 2020's and 2117's, I tried 2219's but they were too stiff. Any suggestions you have will be appreciated!  Thanks.   Dan

[Whip]

I'm not sure there are carbons out there that will give you the weight you want without adding either stuffing the shaft or adding heavy inserts.  But for me adding the inserts and having more weight up front is the answer.  It not only brings the total arrow weight up where I want it, but I believe it also gives a shaft that will penetrate better because more of that weight is right there behind the head and not out on the shaft itself.  

I'm not good at physics, and don't know if I can explain my theory, but think about it in the extremes.  If you had an arrow with most of the weight on the back end, when that arrow hit something solid the weight will want to keep moving forward.  The shaft itself will absorb some of the energy the weight behind it is imparting.  And if the shaft is not perfectly perpendicular to the target when it hits, some of that energy from the rear of the arrow will tend to push it sideways rather than straight ahead.

I have become a real fan of weight forward arrows.  I love shooting wood, but my carbons fly like darts.

[Jason Kendall]

I would try the easton axis arrows, the 400's with the muzzy 100 grain inserts cut to 31" and 125 heads would weigh in about 510-520 grains and then add the weight tubes 3 rivers archery sells and you are over 600 easy! the beaman classics would even be a little heavier, about 25 grains I believe. I recently switched to Axis and they fly great! You may need the 340's at your 70#, maybe someone that shoots that weight will chime in.

[BaldingEagle]

I just bought some Carbon Express Rebels.  They are a great value at $48.00/dozen.  I then pushed 7/32"Ace Hardware, braided, clothes line.  50' cost me $4.  It brought the weight of these shafts, with a 5/16", 125gr. head to slightly over 600 grains.  So far, this has worked very well.  I bought the glue in nock inserts so that I could use 5/16" glue-on nocks and to keep the pop-in nocks from becoming pop-out nocks.  This paragraph took longer to write than did the modifications.
John

[possumtrot]

Check out the Grizzly Stiks at Alaskan Bowhunting Supply. They are on the sponsor list. Might so a search on them as well. Lots of input...John

[flatbowMB]

I use Beman Max 340s cut to 30" with 100 grain brass insert and 125 grain broadheads.  Total aroow weight is just a bit over 600 grains.  My draw length is righ at 28" inches and these arrow fly very well from my 74lb (@ 28") longbow.

[bohuntr]

Hey guys I appreciate all the input. I am thinking maybe the inserts could be my answer. I really do not know anything about the inserts so forgive me if my questions seem a little stupid. The 1st thing I need to know is whether the weighted inserts work with screw on broadheds? I definitely want something that is going to work with a screw on head. The 2nd question I have is should I buy a heavier than normal spined arrow since I will be shooting a 125gr broadhead attached to a 100 gr insert making it the equivalent of a 225 gr head? Let me know your thoughts. Thanks.  Dan

[Dustin Waters]

Dont buy the heavier spine.  Carbon is finicky as a shaft material.  Stay with the normal spine on your shafts.  You might also look into the Beman MFX classics.  I believe the 300 is the heavier one.  My dad uses those and they are 11.2 gpi.  Without the insert he is around 550 grains.  So with that heavier insert for them he would be in the middle of the range you are looking for.  Once you get a carbon to fly right and see how indestructible they really are you wont want to switch back to anything else.

[bohuntr]

Dustin thanks for the input but I am afraid I might not have worded my question the best. I know I want to end up with an arrow with the same approximate effective spine as I am shooting now. In the Bemans I believe the 400's are probably most comparable in spine to 2020's or 2117's. If I use the 100gr insert with a 125 gr head it is my thought that it will be like shooting a 225 gr head which would weaken the effective spine of the arrow. I think your suggestion of the Beman 340's (11.2 grs per ") is probably a good one. Although the Beman 340's would normally be too stiff for my setup I am thinking the added point weight will weaken the spine to an acceptable level. Who has tried this -- ie shooting a heavier spined than normal carbon with xtra point weight? How did it work out?  Thanks. Dan

[daveycrockett]

I'M DOING IT NOW. SHOOTING CARBON EXPRESS 350'S WITH 300 GRAINS ON THE NOSE OF 'EM. TOTAL WEIGHT OF 710 GRAINS OUT OF A 64 POUND TOMAHAWK LONGBOW. THEY SHOOT GOOD. COURSE I HAVE A 30.5 INCH DRAW, THAT ALSO HELPS SOFTEN 'EM UP.

[6 POINT]

Here's what I use on a 66# B/W PSA V, Easton Axis ST 300's 4 fletched with 100 GR steel broadhead adapter and 160 gr Grizzly. Right at 600 GR and fly like a rocket. Bareshaft tune them and if you want more weight go to the 100 gr brass inserts. I seriously doubt that you could get a 400 to fly right and you would never get enough weight out of it unless you used a filler as it would be too weak to use a heavy point weight that you have to and should use to  get heavy weight. Try em you'll like em.

[Shawn Leonard]

Ya can shoot a Grizzly Stik Safari with 225 up front and a 31" arrow i believe ya are up to close to 800 grains. Look at Alaska bowhunting supplies web-site. Shawn

[Whip]

Adding weight up front does weaken the spine for me somewhat.  I don't shot as heavy of draw weight as you do, so can't tell you what arrow will will work, but if you have one that is a bit stiff to start with and add weight it should work well.  

Carbons are fairly tolerant over a wider range for spine though, so you may not notice a lot of difference. Carbon arrows generally come in just three or four different spine weights, compared to aluminum which comes in a wide variety of different stiffnesses.  My guess would be you will find one of the heavier spined arrows will work out of your set up.

[Pete W]

try some  cheap {$45.00/Dozen Canadian} 55/70 from    http://git-r-donearchery.com/  
 and the 100 gr brass inserts {$12.00/Dozen Can. Get a variety of points from him at the same time for tuning from 175 to 250 gr. {$3.50 a dozen}, Canadian,leave the shaft long to start tuning and cut back from the nock end.

He has a package deal going for $65.00 that includes fletches.  http://git-r-donearchery.com/clearance.htm

If the shafts are weak, but I doubt it, just make the plate padding thickness more.

Pete

[LazerRay]

The Beman Max4 are the heaviest of the skinny carbons I shot the 340s with a 250gr point and they where up around 640gr. If you shot the 300 with the brass inserts and 250gr heads , you could be over 725gr for a 29" arrow.
My suggestion,
LR

[robtattoo]

Do Not buy the new CX Terminator Select XP shafts!!! They'll break all over the place. They sound nice at 9.9 gpi, but every one I shot in Texas smashed. Very disappointed.

[Pete W]

Curious as to how you can break so many arrows?
 Did they snap in 2 or push the insert up inside?

[Jay Campbell, JD]

I'm happy with Gold Tip Big Game 100s. Harder to find, higher spined than the 75-95. Very Tough (my New Mexico Back yard is a killing field for arrows). My wife and I shoot the same arrow - me out of my 80# BW PLX, she out of her 70# Adcock ACS CX. Both bows shoot the arrow 158 FPS. 905 grains after epoxying a 1516 Easton Jazz aluminum shaft inside, plus 70 grains of weights, regular aluminum insert, 125 grain Steel adaptor, 160 grain head.

These are for buffalo, and bare shaft perfectly. Lots of mismatched combinations will fly straight with feathers, but bare shafting gives the true picture of straight flight, which leads to greater penetration.

The 3 Rivers shaft inserts at about 11 grains per inch do add weight, but do lower dynamic spine.  Sometimes that's a good thing, depends on what you need from the finished arrow.  Mine are 17% FOC.  Would like 20%, but can't get it out of this combo. Am experimenting to find a stiffer carbon shaft to use inside the BG 100 instead of the 1516 Jazz.  Haven't found it yet, but that might allow more forward weight, heavier shaft, and greater FOC. Would like 1100 grains for Buffalo. - Jay Campbell, JD

[robtattoo]

Originally posted by Pete W:
Curious as to how you can break so many arrows?
 Did they snap in 2 or push the insert up inside?

All did the exact same thing. They all split up the carbon from the tip upwards toward the fletching. Splits were running from 2" up to 8" I had some Easton Lightspeeds with me that everyone said would be too brittle,thay stood up far, far better than the CXs. I mean smashing them into rocks is not gonna do any arrows too many favours, but the Eastons stood up to it just fine. The Terminators all bust.   :(

[bohuntr]

Thanks for all the input guys. I appreciate it!!!