"CHEEP"

[Shakes.602]

How does that go: You Can Always Buy Better, But Ya Cant Pay More!!

[poekoelan]

I'll probably get some backlash for these statements, but here goes anyway...

A proper 1x2 of red oak from Lowe's or Home Depot with proper workmanship will make a bow that will shoot right along with any other longbow, hybrids not included. You probably won't make a good one on your first attempt or two, so buy a few of them. Get good at it ( it won't take too long ) and then you can cut tree staves for free if you're lucky. Either way, there is a learning curve involved. But you can make 10 to 20 average self bows before you begin to approach the cost of one average factory bow. Learn to read grain first. Reading grain applies to both bows and...

Arrows: proper dowels from the craft or hardware store can make very good arrows that can match or even surpass the matched dozens you buy from archery suppliers. I know there are some vendors that sell shafts that are meticulously matched. It could be very hard to match them as close as these guys do. The finished arrows from these guys are also of the highest quality. Some are such works of art that they would probably give me a case of target panic if I drew one on a bowstring.

But I also know that there are vendors who only match their dozens in spine and not in weight, whether it's raw shafts or finished arrows and they still charge 30 bucks a dozen for raw shafts. It's not too tough to come up with a dozen dowel arrows that are far better matched than these and far less expensive. Match your dowels as closely or as loosely as you wish. Make them as plain or as ornate as you wish. Just make sure you can read and understand grain. If you can pick a good board for a bow, you can pick a good dowel for an arrow. You can also plane them from boards or make them from shoots. Both of these methods involve more work, however if you use shoots, your raw material can cost you nothing. Dowels will cost 30 to 60 cents a piece.

Most spine testers cost an arm and a leg. There is one that only costs an arm. It isn't hard at all to make one for a good bit less than the cost of a fingertip. And there are many ways to do it...protractor, dial indicator, digital caliper. You can even do pretty well with a primitive one as long as you are consistant.

Strings: You can buy two strings or you can buy enough material to make twenty of them for the same price. Take your choice. If you only have one or two bows, it's not a big deal as strings last a good while. However, if you have many bows it will pay off quickly.

Points: I've never tried to make my own points or broadheads because field points aren't very expensive and they outlast the arrow provided you don't lose them. Broadheads are pricey but you don't launch them everyday. I only need a handful of them. I don't see the need to make them. They are the one item that I'd rather pay for than make.

Glues for points: I've found that extra stength hot melt glue from the craft store works as well as ferrel tite for 1/10th the price.  

There are many "shorcuts" you can take when it comes to archery stuff. But when you save in money, you will make up for it in work or time in most cases. When you save in work or time, you can bet your rear end you'll pay in cash.

I think the best bargains going are 1x2 red oak bow staves and 5/16 ramin dowels. Ramin dowels will soon be gone. Wonder what they will replace them with? Whatever it is, I'll probably try to make an arrow from it. I'll know right away whether it will serve me or not.

I'm all about cheap. Cheap as in inexpensive, not cheap as in junk.

[lucznik]

What most of you have said about buying quality is correct, at least in part.  

The corollary to this principle (which is equally true) however is that; just because you have spent a lot more, doesn't necessarily mean you have bought better quality.  The Law of Diminishing Returns is alive and well and also many times the premium price we might pay for products has little or nothing to do with their value and everything to do with the name printed on the side.

Take Porsche as an example.  No one buys one because they are exceptionally well-made cars.  In fact, a Toyota costing 1/4 or so of the price will likely outlast it by many, many thousands of miles.  It will also ride better, handle more smoothly, and what few repairs and little service is required will cost you far less as well. You buy a Porsche to enjoy the "prestige" of the name.

Optics are another good example.  If your pride requires it, you buy optics with a majestic eagle, a stylized Z, or a cute red dot on the side. If you want simple optical performance, Nikon, Bushnell, Minox, Kahles, Pentax, Meopta, Vortex, and etc. all offer comparable quality products at 1/2 the price or less. They also offer better warranties and better customer service as well.

So too are the products of (some) custom bowyers, fletchers, etc.  You oft times are paying for the name on the product, without necessarily receiving a correlating increase in quality.

Put more simply: "Buy the best" and "Pay the most" do not necessarily mean the same thing.

[aromakr]

Poekolen:
I don't disagree with what you said. The intent of my thread was directed at those who have written. "Where can I get the cheepest spool of B50" now lets see a spool of B50 runs about $8.00 how much cheeper will you find it maybe .25 cents. And there are several more examples, but I won't bore you with it.
Lucznik:
I hate to disagree with you, but when it comes to optics, I will bet you've never spent hours looking through them. An yes if you are just taking a quick look the cheepies are probably fine, but spend an hour or more and you will notice the difference. Each situation is different.
Bob

[Dan Worden]

Originally posted by Brian Krebs:
so- I know how much I would need if I find a way to go back in time; but what could I take that would be more valuable then than now- so I could afford what I would want? They wouldn't take my credit card; and my money looks fake.
  What would I take back that was more valuable then - than now?

Very simple. A GOOD history book for land usage/growth, stocks, collectibles, lottery numbers and sports championships. The book might cost you $20-30 today but 30, 40-50 years in the past it would be invaluable.

Think of what you could do with only $1000 properly placed back then.

[poekoelan]

aromaker,
 While I try to save some money by making my own things, I do see your point.

A quarter on a roll of b50 isn't anything to sweat, but some do. Now if you needed a whole lot of them, I could see looking for the best price.

When I first started in this hobby, I looked through all the catalogs and I ordered from the ones that seemed to have the lowest prices. I ran into problems doing that. Now I stick with one supplier. Sometimes this supplier doesn't have the absolute lowest price, but they get my order to me very fast and they provided great customer service and help in the begining when I was starting out. I didn't forget that. So if a dozen points cost a quarter more or a half dozen broadheads costs two dollars more than the next guy, I buy from them anyway because I never forgot how they treated me and how quick they get my stuff out. I have no problem paying a buck or two more for great service even though I like a bargain.

But I know what you mean about people trying to find the cheapest price on everything. Many times they end up paying for it with lousy service.

[lucznik]

I will bet you've never spent hours looking through them.

You would lose that bet.  

Note too that I didn't say you could get good optics "cheap." I just said that paying the highest price does not gaurantee you the best quality nor the highest value.

Besides the many hours I spend glassing while scouting I also have the benefit of being able to sit on my porch and glass a resident herd of antelope for hours on end - not to mention the deer, elk, birds, etc. all of which can be viewed year round right around my home.

I spend far more time behind my "glass" than do most hunters - mostly just because I can. While I'm not an optical engineer, I have spent considerable time researching and studying the concepts, limitations, and compromises that go into optics design.  The simple reality is that German/Austrian optics hold no special qualities that are not duplicated by the high-quality offerings of the Japanese and some other European firms.   What the Germans do have is better marketing/advertising departments.

The "top" optics makers do indeed produce products that are very nice.  They are however, often matched (and in some cases bettered) by other, less-expensive makes.

[JStark]

I think the optics argument probably isn't between the cheap optics like $30 WallyWorld stuff and Zeiss, but if you are talking about, say Eagle Optics as cheap (still ~$200-300) vs. those really expensive ones, then I'd have to agree with lucznik.

[Ray Lyon]

When it comes to my hunting stuff, I look for top of the line.

I just had a fellow Tradganger email me about getting a Super Shrew bow and how he sees why Super Shrew shooters are making a big fuss about them.

I love Easton Axis/Beman MFX arrows.

I love my Bison Gear pack

My Gray Wolf Woolen cloths are top notch.

I think silk long underwear are the best.

I think my Black Forrest Blade knives are awesome.

What's on my to get list:

I'm still investigating binoculars, but it will be one of the big three.

I'm looking at the wood arrows from Elite arrows/Paul Jalon that Ron LaClair has on his website when my stash of old Acme Premium shafts has been used up.

I'll add a Double Bull blind to my hunting arsenal.

None of these items were/are inexpensive. I buy them from reputable companies that are service oriented. I've gotten more pleasure by far than what I "paid out" for these items. Over the long haul, they're a value and the proprietors have earned they're nickle in my eyes. Owners like Ron LaClair, Tim/Gabby Cosgrove, Jeff Aulik and Angelo from Bison Gear are worth keeping in business in my opinion. Maybe I'll end up in the poor farm, but if so, look for me in the happy section.  

[Brian Krebs]

Thanks Dan..
 Now beam me back