Arrow penetration.... the real secret.

[bowhunterfrompast]

I don't know how I missed this    great info

[bowhunterfrompast]

ttt

[Brian P.]

Ok. I took the advice of many positive reviews here and bought the BH sharpener standard kit.
Got it today.

What am I missing? I have been trying to sharpen a 220 gr Muzzy Phantom that has only been shot into foam a few times. The edge is all but factory with no nicks. I am getting no where with this endevour. I have used the stones that came with the kit, as well as my DMT bench stones. Same results.

 Everyone says that Ron can talk you through it in a few minutes on the phone. Rather than bother him on the phone, cant someone just post what he tells ya? I have read the instructions, watched the videos on the website, read the posts here, and still I am getting nothing accomplished.

 There has to be a secret to this thing that I am missing. I am not that challenged when it comes to sharpening.

BP

[bentpole]

Brian I guess you don't know the man very well? Ron that is. Do your self a favor give him a call. He is a Saint. I heard of more people than I have hair on my head say just what you said. Give the man a call he is willing to help anyone.  bentpole>>>>~~~~~>

[limbow]

Can you do a 3 blade head like the 300 X treem or the new VPA??

[DesertDude]

Hey Charlie, Ron, Ray & Terry, I was taught by an old timer to file sharpen BH's. They would get "Soup Can Lid" sharp and that's how I was taught. Then I talked with Ron (KME) and read your's and others posts about getting the edge polished/honed sharp. What are your takes on the different styles of sharpening BH's? Is there an advantages too sharpening one way or another?  What would you guys tell young and old bowhunters when it comes to sharpening methods.
Tradgang has a wealth of knowledge to pass on to others. I'm looking to learn......

Mark

[Sam McMichael]

I believe its the combination of sharp, properly placed broad head in front of heavy well tuned arrow that makes all the difference. Broadhead design and arrow material are less important as long as they perform. I generally use a diamond sharpener and finish with a leather strop, but everything I've heard about the KME system makes me think I need to give it a try.

[shakey slim]

so sharp the shadow will cut you and a properly tuned arrow, is all it takes.
 i love the looks of that KME, i'm sure it will do the job! gonna get one !  

[Brian P.]

Bentpole,

 Your right, I have never met or spoken to Ron. I have never questioned his willingness to help his customers either.

 All I proposed was that maybe someone here could offer up some advice on what I am doing wrong. I am sure Ron has better things to do than answering the same questions over and over again. Numerous people in this thread and others have commented that they called him.

 I guess being thoughtful of other peoples time isnt an admiral quality anymore?

BP

[doug77]

Brian I bought the broadhead sharpner and like you tried lots of different things and could not get them even close to sharp. Ended up buying Ron's knife sharpner and I will promice my broadheads are sharper this year than they have EVER been.

doug77

[jdeck]

A cheap stand in for a wet stone or diamond stone is some wet dry sand paper glued (spray adhesive) to a piece of granite counter top ( ie sink cutout). Most granite shops have cutouts laying around. I just got a KME sharpener and it works great. I use sandpaper for the initial grind so it does not wear out my wet stone and then finish up with 1000 - 8000 grit. They do make wet dry sandpaper up to 4000 grit. I also use this method for plane irons.

[Jim Keller]

I bought the knife sharpener at Denton Hill. I'm very impressed with how sharp I can get knives and broadheads.

[fatman]

Brian, at the risk of offending, I whole-heartedly agree with Bentpole that you should give Ron a call    

fatman
 

[SuperK]

Hey DesertDude,  I know what'cha mean.  That was the way I was "taught" also.  I am not an expert on this subject by any means but I think I read that a lot of it has to do with the hardness of the metal in the broadhead.  In other words, if the metal in the  broadhead you are using is "soft", you are probably wasting your time getting the polished/honed edge because it isn't going to keep that edge when it makes contact with the hide, bone,etc. of any animal.  Grizzly broadheads has "harder" metal and holds a polished/honed edge better.  (So I've read).  In the broadhead studies by Dr. Ashby (I hope I spelled his name right), his testing on buff hides (which he stated were very stringy) proved better penetration with the honed/polished edge.  The "old school" guys I knew stated that a honed/polished razor edge would "roll over" when you hit rib bones, muddy hides, etc while a filed/wire edge would still be cutting.  I have shot deer with both kind of edges.  I wish I could say that I noticed a difference between them. Too many other variables involved,I guess. Lots of info in past posts.  I guess this subject (along with 2 blade vs multi-blade bhs) will be around as long as we have trad bowhunters.

[trashwood]

no doubt about it, sharp!

I don't know if I have ever mentioned it are not but the fellow that taught me about bow hunting in the late 50's was a PhD chemist for a rubber company (tires).  He had done a lot of studies on pentetration.  he was absolutely convinced that he should lubricate his BH.  well and he did vaseline.  I just saying  

rusty

[Charlie Lamb]

Mark... I've used a jig and stones to sharpen my broadheads and knives for around 30 something years. My old one was on it's last leg and replacement with the KME was a natural move... works just like my old jig only with improvements.

When I've got all kinds of time I use the jig at the bench in my shop. I've polished my share of edges and killed my share of game with them as well.
HOWEVER!!! Most often I never progress past the coarse stone as I prefer a serrate edge. That edge has always seemed tougher to me with the broadheads I chose to use... I'm not a fan of the single bevel heads regardless of hardness. (just my personal choice)

I will, however, strop the serrate/rough edge to get the tops of the serrations nasty sharp. It's kind of a best of both worlds thing.

In the field I use a smooth cut Grobet file to touch up the edge when needed, though often all I really need to do is hit the edge a few licks on a crock stick and it's ready to go again.

I can get a hair shaving edge with just a file if I want/need to. I don't find it all that difficult after all these years.

The real advantage of the KME as I see it is the uniformity of the edge it produces. Uniform edge angles "seem" to make for a longer lasting edge as well as a more durable one.
It also prevents changing the shape of the blades and minimizes metal removal which makes a broadhead last a very long time.
(I practice with my broadheads all the time, so they end up getting resharpened a lot over time)

Nothing scientific here, just my take on the process after decades of sharpening stuff.

[DesertDude]

Thank You for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Mark

[Charlie Lamb]

Maybe I should add this comment... I'll use any edge as long as it will cut everyting it touches easilly. Just not positive there is a lick of difference in the end result.
If there is, I doubt seriously that it could be measured.

[Sharpster]

Originally posted by Brian P.:
Ok. I took the advice of many positive reviews here and bought the BH sharpener standard kit.
Got it today.

What am I missing? I have been trying to sharpen a 220 gr Muzzy Phantom that has only been shot into foam a few times. The edge is all but factory with no nicks. I am getting no where with this endevour. I have used the stones that came with the kit, as well as my DMT bench stones. Same results.

 Everyone says that Ron can talk you through it in a few minutes on the phone. Rather than bother him on the phone, cant someone just post what he tells ya? I have read the instructions, watched the videos on the website, read the posts here, and still I am getting nothing accomplished.

 There has to be a secret to this thing that I am missing. I am not that challenged when it comes to sharpening.

BP

Brian,

I have coached many people through sharpening a BH on the phone over the last couple years and there are 2 recurring mistakes (for lack of a better term) that are almost always the reason for the problems people encounter:

1) Progressing through the grits too quickly, Or
2) Pushing down on the sharpener while sharpening.

Sometimes both but, I'm fairly certain that you're pushing too hard... possibly way too hard. The Phantom's vented blades will flex with amazingly light pressure, and if the blade flexes.... there goes the consistent angle. Put a head in the sharpener and place the sharpener on the stone. Now look at the broadhead/sharpener/stone from the side and without moving the sharpener just slowly apply increasing pressure while you watch for the blade to flex. When you see the blade flex, that's about 4 times as much pressure as you should use when sharpening.

I have a Magnus Stinger on my desk that was sent to me by a fellow who was having the same problem. Honest, half the blade is ground away and he was right, it wasn't sharp. I put it in a sharpener and had it plowing hair in about 2 minutes. Called him back that evening and had him lighten way up on the pressure he was applying, and bingo.

I guess it's just human nature to think since we're grinding steel that applying a bit of pressure will speed things up but, that's not the case with light flexible blades. (and ALL BROADHEADS have light flexible blades).

The other possibility is that you're not getting the blade sharp enough on the coarse stone. This is also critical when sharpening anything. The blade should be shaving or very close to it before leaving the coarsest stone. It will be a coarse sharp but very  sharp none the less.

The cutting edge is formed at the coarsest stage of sharpening and the finer grits only polish and refine the edge we created with the coarse stone. If the edge wasn't fully developed with the coarse stone, then the finer grits will polish the bevels, but they won't get the blade any sharper.

This is more frequently the problem people encounter when sharpening laminated tip broadheads that require a lot of stock removal on the first "out of the pack" sharpening but the theory still applies to any blade.

So my advice is to back way off on the pressure and make sure the blade is very sharp before leaving the coarsest grit. Let us know how you make out.

Oh yea, Customer service/tech support phone calls are never a bother. In fact I enjoy talking with fellow bowhunters and we usually end up talking about hunting and shooting and becoming friends too.  So never hesitate to call.

Ron
800 561-4339

[Charlie Lamb]

Everyone who considers themselves sharpening challenged should pay special attentiont to Ron's post.

While he was mainly talking about two blade heads the problem of too much pressure and bending/spreading the blades of a Woodsman or Snuffer is just as common.

When to much pressure is applied, that pressure can never be exactly the same and produces a rounded grind as the angle is constantly changing.

Easy does it and let the stone/file do the cutting and not the pressure you put on it.