Some thoughts on string twist

[Jack Whitmire Jr]

Wow you guys have waaaaayyyyyyyy toooooooo much time on your hands. The reason I got into traditional archery years ago was to get away from analyzation paralyzation and just hunt/shoot.

Keep it simple
Jack

[Rob DiStefano]

ever try to describe in detail what takes place when you pull string and let fly, jack?  it's such a simple act, but folks have written books attempting to describe that process from both mechanical and mental perspectives.  

same is true for tackle.  

if you wanna keep it simple, there's not much to rap about - and not much info gets shared, and none of us learn.  it's that simple.  

and of course, ymmv.

[LC]

So Rob what kinda string material are you using now? Tried any skinny strings on recurves? Got to thank you again for the tutorial on making endless strings it improved my string making tremendously. See your using the unistrut now, makes a nice frame for the endless string jigs. tradcoop

[Rob DiStefano]

hi larry, how ya doin'?      

literally wore out my old one arm jig and after seeing yer unistrut i knew it was the way to go.  i'm using bcy dyneema'02 - same as dynaflight'97 only with less than half the wax as endless needs far less of that stuff and makes for a lighter string.  don't have any recurves, so no skinny string testing with them, expect the same results as with longbows.

[Guru]

Jack some of us prefer to share and learn from each other, after all, that's what Trad gang is all about..."a mind is a terrible thing to waste"    

[shootarealbow]

Rob,
     Liked the pictorial and can not wait to see the video.

[Running Buck]

Rob,
How do you like the '02? I have been making skinny strings for about a year now using 8125. A six strand string is pretty scary to look at!LOL

[Rob DiStefano]

i like using d'02 and have been ever since it came out years ago.  it's df'97, but with lots less wax.  i spun up a 4 strand d'02 for a 45# longbow, as a test - more than strong enuf!

[Running Buck]

I will agree the strength is there, but it looks like your shooting off a spider web.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Running Buck:
I will agree the strength is there, but it looks like your shooting off a spider web.

... and it just looks and feels weird with 4 strands of d'02.  8 strands is fine, just need to fully test out 6 strands.  the neat thing is that once you've got the jig length set that works for a particular bow, you can produce any strand count string ya like and they're all the same length - exactly the same length.

[Running Buck]

What are you doing with your center serving? I have doubled served with .018 but it is a pain. I have tried adding 10 to 12 short strands in the serving area before twisting and that seems to work pretty good. You just have a lot of trimming to do and you still wind up with fuzz coming out of both ends of the serving.

[Rob DiStefano]

first and foremost, as a split finger shooter i always want a very loose nock to serving fit ... not even a hint of friction or 'snap' and arrows will immediately fall off and never hang on the bowstring.  my nock point is always made from tied string fiber, saturated with thin cya, and the arrow nocks under the point.

for 8 strand d'02 strings i use .019" halo center serving with no other under serving or build up.  for the 4 strand d'02 string i used .026" halo.

if a less loose nock fit is required, i'd add a very small whipping of flat dental floss to the nock point area, sized to fit the arrow nock, then saturated with thin cya.  if the fit is too tight, the floss can be compressed or even sanded with fine emery board grit.  it'll last a very very long time.  

adding a build up of strands under the serving area is, imo, tougher to get a proper fit, since those strands stray as they twist into the main body of string fiber and the resulting serving thickness you require will be harder to achieve.

[Rob DiStefano]

some folks pm'd me about my tie on nock point ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DCM]

I like to use nylon serving material to tie on nock points, because you can burn the tag end and it will melt down to seal the knot.  Expect B50 would work as well.  Haven't tried ca but hear it does great.  Seems like it would be stiff and brittle, particularly to seal a dental floss build up.  I'll use my nock point to secure the tag end on the floss wrap in this scenario.

A good string can make a heck of a difference in the manners of a bow, particularly a long (in dimension) bow with lots of early weight or preload.

[30coupe]

Rob,

When you make a skinny CL string, how much stretch do you allow for? My skinny Flemish strings tend to stretch or creep quite a bit at first, so it takes a lot of twists to return to brace height. I'm still experimenting with starting length. I'd like to avoid the excessive twists, but I'm not sure just how short the string needs to be initially.

Russ

[Charlie Lamb]

Russ typically you can expect to have to shorten the string equal to how low the brace gets.

Example... if the string stretches so that the brace is 1" lower than when you started you'll need to twist the string to shorten it by 1" or make the string 1" shorter to begin with.

Consider this a rule of thumb.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by 30coupe:
Rob,

When you make a skinny CL string, how much stretch do you allow for? My skinny Flemish strings tend to stretch or creep quite a bit at first, so it takes a lot of twists to return to brace height. I'm still experimenting with starting length. I'd like to avoid the excessive twists, but I'm not sure just how short the string needs to be initially.

Russ

when i spin an endless string, no matter how many strands, it's spun *tight* and flat - this means that only a few twists are needed to round off, or more twists could be added to shorten.

as far as i'm concerned, your string length issue is due to the flemish build - you need to adjust your twisting length parameters.  good luck, you might need it!    

ah, the functional beauty of spinning versus twisting ...

[30coupe]

Rob,

Okay, so I am going to pick up the stuff I need to make a CL string jig today. I'll probably bug you some more as I start the process.

How many twists (roughly) are the few that are needed to round off? How many twists would be too many if I have to shorten?

I think the string length is more due to the skinny strings and padded loops than the Flemish itself. If I make a 12 or more strand d97 Flemish twist string, it takes 5-10 twists to make up for the initial settling in process, then an occasional twist or two over time. Normally once these are settled in, they stay put pretty much. It is the skinny ones that seem to take more twists and longer to settle.

Anyway, I am willing to learn. If the CL skinnies work better, I'll make them instead!

[30coupe]

Thanks Charlie. That's what I did to start with on the skinny strings, but it appears I am going to have to go two inches shorter as I am getting a lot of twists in them. They haven't started to kink or coil yet though, which is kind of amazing.