Shooting "Ethical" 3D

[George D. Stout]

[Killdeer]

That shoot of Mark Baker's sounds like real fun!

I never used to keep score, but in the last couple of years I have started, just to get a numeric value on my so-called progress. Of course, I cannot compare the values of my home course, set up for compounders, mostly, and those of say, ATAR, where they are designing shots for us. But over the years, each course compared against last year's, I should get a guess at whether I am getting any better or just holding my own. I will not entertain the thought of regression!   :eek:

The thing to guard against, in this stake-free freestyle true-hunters' three-dee mode of attack, is the tendency to sneak into the "proper" spot for a shot, while in actuality getting to the same seventeen-yard shot that I am most comfortable with for every target on the course. In the fun frame of mind, and not really being that good a judge of exact yardage, I find that that is my tendency. The comfortable spot is the one that I have practiced the most.  

Push come to shove, winning a shoot is not high on my "to do list". I like to see if I can make the shot that has been set up by someone else, and decide for myself if that is one that I would take. 3-D is basically a game of HORSE. It is not beyond me to sneak up and take the slam-dunk on a target after everyone has shot, depending on the group and if there are a bunch of toe-tapping finger-drummers behind me. Or arrows to search for...   :rolleyes:

Killdeer

[Dutchman]

I'd venture to say that the majority of folks in our local trad only club don't turn in a score at our monthly shoots. I keep it to keep track of any progress, as others have already stated. The folks I shoot most with keep up with it the first time through a course, but the second time is a game of alternating who picks the spot to shoot from and then making the shot.

At our shoot in August, we're planning to use the Fred Bear Ethical Scoring plan. Should be eye-opening...

[ron w]

Our club has done what we call hunter scoreing.You get a +1 for a killing shot[heart,lungs,liver] a 0 for a miss and a -2 for a wound. After a 30 target shoot and someone wins with a 9 its a real eye opener!!! But real good practice for taking your time and picking a spot.

[wollelybugger]

I have been shooting that way for the last five years. It gives you your killing range and you should make at least 80 percent kill shots in your comfort zone. If it is at 15 yards than that is where you should be taking your shots ar game animals.If you are shooting a 30 target course with the normal scoring, 10,8 and 5 you should be shooting  at least 230 or you are shooting too far back. I shoot by myself usually and shoot at the stakes  if there is a suitable backstop for missed arrows. No score cards and no frustration.

[gsdmikko]

sounds like great fun..thats what it's all about..
Horner,I wouldn't give up going to the shoot there.see if you can grab a couple buds to go with next time,if not just go around by yourself and tell them you're not shooting for score.and shoot from where you are comfortable.my own opinion,I think shooting 3d targets is great practice for the real deal..

[BobW]

You are supposed to keep score?  And shoot from the stakes?  Oops!

[rascal]

I havent been to a 3D course in ages, dont even know if there are any around my area anymore to be honest.  That being said I do enjoy a round of 3D at a good course in the woods but I was never a score keeper.  I found that too many courses had at least 20% of the shots set up with impossible to justify conditions whether that was extreme range, poor shot angle or obstructions.  I also ran into one that had shots set up specifically to eat arrows (the guy would comb the course several times a week and retrieve arrows that were lost and SELL them back!!!)  For my own part I always just shot the course as I would have hunted the course, passing on the ridiculous shots and scoring myself on whether that animal would have been killed in a quick and humane manner.  It is just my opinion here but I will say that in my way of thinking a hit in the kill zone (read that as a killing shot that would have taken out the vitals not the actual circle on the foam) was worth 1 a miss worth 0 and a bad hit worth about -10.  I have really taken a dislike to the current trend of long shots and poor shot placement on game, especially on film.  I say fine if you can shoot a target butt from 60 yards but I have never had a target just jump out of the way of my arrow or for that matter even move a little.  Ive seen whitetail deer do some pretty amazing things at just 10 yards at the release of an arrow let alone the eternity it would take for an arrow to cover 6 times that distance.  Honestly 3D is fun for me and really thats about it, some people however have to take it to a competitive level and eventually you start competing for prizes, trophies and money.  Thats when it becomes less about realistic practice for hunting and more about making the shots hard enough to challenge the most proficient archers with the best possible gear built around 3D shooting.

The only competition I want when I shoot my bow is between me and my intended target animal and it is to that end that I practice not a score card.

[ron w]

As said above, it is most important above all to have FUN... thats what keeps us in this sport. Good people,good fun!!!!!!

[Horne Shooter]

I like to compete with my buddies.  We keep score and get bragging rights if we win against each other.  That makes it fun for us.  Lot's of good natured ribbing and trash talking. Not keeping score is fine if that is what you enjoy.  I just like the competitive nature of most any game I play.  I turn 50 in a few weeks, maybe I'll outgrow it soon.

[mjh]

At our clubs open shoots we have a challenge stake,hunter stake, traditional stake, and youth stake. That challenge stake can be 50 yrds.  At our trad only shoot one stake you can always move up. We are thinking about having a challenge stake on some of our shots at our trad shoot.  Many folks like the challenge of the shot but for new folks being heavily challenged on each shot may not be the way to keep them in the circle, so to speak.  To many lost & broken arrows along with 0's when your out trying to have some fun stops being fun after a while.  I'm lucky enough to live close to a range that has 28 outside targets on walk through ranges, I get to shoot hunting shots all the time.  I want to go to a 3D that challenges me and try shots that I would not try in real hunting.  I  like to push my limits so I know my limits.

[last arrow]

I look at scoring as a way of measuring what I am capable of doing.  How do I know what I am  are capable of doing if I never push my limits by taking difficult and long shots? I feel the place that tells me the most is on the practice range, with the pressure of people watching (i.e., at a shoot). I feel that is the best test for hunting I can get. Besides, it is fun to watch an arrow travel 70 yards down range at a large animal target.

At the broadhead shoots I used to go to in the 1970's, we would count kill shots (get a K for a shot in the vitals).  You would get an x for a heart shot. No negatives for wounded animals (occasionally you would have shots that a miss or wound ment a broken or bent arrow).  Most k's wins the round, if there is a tie in k's, use the x as a tie breaker.

This is the best scoring system to measure hunting ability that I have found.  Even now, I peridically keep track of the percentage of Ks I shoot.  I also track it by range and have specific goals for each range- for example, my goal is 95% Ks at under 20 yards.  I rarely keep track of points.

In about 1980 the club I was in went to point systems to seperate out the compound shooters as there were to many shooter with all Ks using compounds.  When it was still difficult to find the winning shooter, shot ranges started getting longer.  When the club bought 3d targets in about 1985, the shots got longer to preserve the expensive targets. I miss the old broadhead siloette shoots.

[Dick in Seattle]

Thanks for all the responses, guys.  Lots of neat ideas there and it's nice to see I'm not alone.  For you guys who score seriously and compete, I'm certainly not putting you down.   More power to you.  I'm just of a mind set to avoid adding a tension source to something I do to relax.  Darn near had a heart attack in 1969 while defending a bench rest championship and haven't scored much of anything since.  That said, i really like ronw's +1, 0, -2 system.   That'd be an eye opener for sure.

[Blackhawk]

Dick, at the TBW rendezvous this year they plan on having the Viking Shoot again which uses that scoring system of + and -.  

Besides, you could get a chance of wearing that goofy Viking outfit.    

You would look like Wilford Brimley in a Viking movie.  

[sj_lutz]

The course closest to me only has one set of stakes out as well.  Usually I'll take 10 paces from where ever the stake is and take my shot from there.  Sometimes I'll forget completely about the stakes and take all the shots while sitting or leaning against a tree.  

I'm not lookin to be a prize winning 3D shooter, I am however looking to improve my shooting, and practice on as realistic (for me) a hunting shot as I can.

[crossstickspro]

When it comes to scoreing, Im really a to each his own kind of guy, it really depends on if I want to shoot my olympic style recurve or get out one of the martins and just have some fun.
But I really think that the problem with most 3d ranges is that compound shooters set up the shoots and they dont take into account that some people shoot without sights and let-off, and an ethical shot for them is not a big deal.
And I use to shoot for the prize, but i would be happy to even shoot a 3d out here.  

Larry

[PAPA BEAR]

i shoot to kill..hell with the score..i try and put myself in the bad situations on targets then make the ethical shot required.some 3d courses are comepletely set up just for the wheelie bows and do not even consider the traditionalist.

[Ia Hawkeye]

Shot the "sting(rope shoot) with -1 for a vital hit,  0 for a miss, and minus 5 for a wound shot" Many times in the 60's and 70's. Great eyeopener! Try that scoring sometime!You dan score that way on your own at a 3-d shoot.

[Ray Hammond]

The Fred Bear Sports Club had an "ethical" scoring system.

I believe it was +5 for a kill zone hit- minus 5 if you wound, and zero if you miss.

Traditional Bowhunters of Georgia used that system for its first shoot of the year for many years.

I always though that was a better way to shoot..made you think as if you were in the field, and a life was at stake.

[b.glass]

I guess I'm a little more competitive then I like to admit. Nothing wrong with being competitive either for that matter. I'm like Killdeer in that I like to keep score to keep track of how I'm shooting. Keeping score can be a real eye opener. AND, it feels good to know when you've shot well.

Bona