lowering the shelf on a recurve.

[ozy clint]

will taking to the shelf with a rasp in order to lower it closer to the grip hand alter the way it shoots? will it alter the tiller to much since i would be pulling the string back in a different place.

should i take the throat of the grip up and the shelf down the same amount in order to get the arrow closer to my hand?

at the moment the shelf is 5/8" higher than my bow hand index finger knuckle. i want to drop the shelf about 1/4"-3/8"
will having the arrow closer to my hand make instinctive shooting easier?

[dan ferguson]

I think Fred Bear use to grind down his shelf to where he was shooting off his knuckle or dang close to it.

[McDave]

I once reshaped the grip on a Brackenbury bow using a drum sander so my hand was closer to the shelf.  I thought that it would affect the tiller less if I reshaped the grip than if I altered the position of the shelf.  However, whenever you change the position of the pressure point of your hand on the bow, you're affecting the tiller, so I'm sure I changed the tiller some anyway.  After changing the Brackenbury, I never felt like doing that again.  I buy bows that are set up to shoot off the shelf from bowyers who know what they're doing, so I concluded that it was probably stupid for me to think that I could engineer the bow better than they did.  Sort of the same reason I don't make my own wine.

It reduces a variable when shooting instinctively if the arrow is closer to your hand, as it minimizes the swing of the front of the arrow back and forth as you change the cant of your bow.  Bear in mind that you would probably move the pivot point of the bow closer to the arrow by switching from a low wrist grip to a high wrist grip than you would by reworking the grip and shelf.  But if your high wrist grip wasn't as strong as your low wrist grip, your overall accuracy might suffer from the change.  As long as you're shooting from your preferred cant, your brain will adjust and a small distance from the arrow to your hand shouldn't matter.  It's just when you vary that cant that errors would be reduced if the arrow were closer to your hand.

[donnyjack]

G Fred Asbell in his book said that before making his own bow's, every time he bought a new bow he would buy a new file to reshape and lower the shelf.

As I understand the tiller issue it is based on the pressure point/trouth of the grip.  Lowering the shelf would not change that.  It would effect your nock height but thats differant between folks anyway.  I know I shoot a high nock, so I would say if your not happy with the shelf change it.  After all bow are made to shoot not hang on a wall and if you can make one shoot better do it.

My two cents !!

DJ

[ozy clint]

i've just been told by a reputable bowyer that lowering the shelf will have adverse effects on the tiller and that i should modify the grip, to place the bowhand closer to the shelf.

now i'm in doubt about what is the best way.  

[Kris]

I would talk to the Bowyer who made your bow to hear from him how changing the grip or shelf might affect that bows tiller.  Having said that, I would side with lowering the shelf, rather than raising the throat of the grip.  The overall balance of the bow is established at the throat of the grip.  I do change the configuration of bow handles all the time, but not so I can get my hand closer to the shelf.  My hands are large and are at the shelf regardless of that.  I would always opt to have the arrow across the top of my hand though, as many others have stated.

[STEVE R.]

Ozy  I have taken files to my Blackwidows,Bighorns, Martins andHoward Hills and when I finished they shot the way I wanted them to.Never had a tiller problem. If it not shooting like you want what can you lose?

[ozy clint]

what do you use to refinish the bow with after making saw dust.

[Art B]

That small amount of movement isn't going to effect much of anything in IMO Ozy. It'll probably improve limb timing/lessen handshock (if any) by bringing the dynamic and static forces closer together. A sligthly straighter wrist/grip may help also. Just one man's opinion though. Good luck.

ART B

[STEVE R.]

I would use minwax spray polyurathain, or gun stock finish Benchwood/casey. I usually lower my shelf and adjust the throat to fit my hand. In my opinion, if you went to the bow maker and told him what you wanted, he would do the same thing to fit the bow to your liking. I think that the archer has to fine tune his bow to his liking. But by all means shoot the bow long enough to know exactly what you want the bow to do and how to make it do that.

[George D. Stout]

I don't know why a "reputable" bowyer would tell you that, unless he wanted to sell you a bow 8^).

The throat of the grip is the center of the bow...the pivot point.  Lowering the shelf would have 0 effect on tiller, unless you were shooting off exact center of the bow...the pivot point.  Then you would only need an even tiller at most.  

I've done that on many old bows I've owned and it works great.  This tiller thing is not as important as we think it is, as long as things are done within reason.  The nocking point is more important under the discussed situations.

Make the bow work for you.

[JCJ]

I love the way old Howatt's shoot but find the shelf and sight windows not to my liking. Here is a early 70's Hunter I crowned the shelf, radiused the sight window and added a paradox channel like a Widow. Worked fine and very easy to do.
 

[cch]

Oz, even if you did mess up the till a little that can be fixed also with a little sanding of the limb. It doesn't take much. As far as refinishing, I have always used a polyurethane in flat or satin. Good luck and remember take it slow and in small amounts at a time. Also if there is a fiberglass overlay on the riser make sure you file towards the inside or you will chip the edges.

[mwmwmb]

Ozyclint, I know a lot of the guys on the history forum do this. in fact that Bowdoc does for those that dont want to do it themselves.
Mickey

[2treks]

Well said George. Go for it Ozy.
Chuck-

[KY..Rob]

Bow Doc, has a great build along on cutting the shelf down. Here is the link in the History forum.

It gets real good on page two with pics and all.

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=002562

Rob..

[ozy clint]

going to give it a go tomorrow.

[d. ward]

Clint just take your time and work it down slowly.You can actually lower the shelf with the bow strung and just shoot a few shots off the bare wood as you work your way down with the shelf.You'll find a sweet spot.keep us posted bd

[ozy clint]

thanks bow doc. i read your article in the link above. nice work.
would polyurethane resin varnish (marine clear varnish) be okay to finish with? it seemed to be alright when i used it on my wifes recurve after crowning the shelf.

[James Wrenn]

I have done what you want several times.Still being honest it made no difference in the way I shot the bow.Having the arrow down close to your hand is overated as far as I am concerned.I shoot my best with a rest that is up higher than the shelf myself. jmo