Ethics and the Essential Question of the Hunt

[mrpenguin]

Being an English Teacher and Professor, I like reading essays.  Lately, I purchased 2 or David Peterson's books ("Man Made of Elk" and "The Hunter's Heart: Essays on Bloodsport") and TJ Conrads' "The Traditional Bowhunters Handbook."  The Peterson books in particular really touched on the biggest issue in hunting... death and the fact that our sport requires something to die.  I would like to start a discussion thread that touches on this important issue.  

So, let me ask:  If hunting requires death in Nature, and we claim to love Nature, should we hunt at all?  

Here is my take, very briefly.  Nature is both beautiful and brutal.  Life feeds off of life.  When I hunt, I participate in that cycle while simultaneously reconnecting with a part of me and humanity that is primal, essential, and spiritual.  That is what gets me out of bed in the cold dark or makes me endure the rain, snow, wind, etc.... the shivers, the need to go to the bathroom, hunger, etc... all to spend a day in Nature as a participant in it, not just an observer of it.  This requires a reverence for the animals, a bit of mourning, maybe regret?  I'll stop there...

What do you all think?

[ethan]

That pretty much sums up how I feel about it.  I think alot of folks who are "in to" nature can't begin to comprehend the full extent of being "in to" nature without knowing the bitter-sweetness of a successfull, and unsuccessfull hunt.

ethan

[leatherneck]

First off, I never regret harvesting an animal. The day I regret it, I'll quit. With that said, I respect each and every animal I harvest. I believe God placed wild game on earth to feed us. More than us, they feed each other. Does one regret eating a hamburger? A cow was slaughtered for it. Some people hunt for food, yet others hunt for the sport and eat the food. The ones that are upsetting are the ones who take the game and discard the food. Yes, we endure alot to harvest game. Why? Because it is the passion for the sport. Why does a professional athlete go through what he does to play a few games? Because he loves the sport. Thats how I feel about hunting. We all are participants of nature. But more than not, were mostly just observing.

Mike

[Mo. Huntin]

I think one life is just as valuable as another.  If you eat meat you would be a hypocryte to get upset if somebody shoots a deer and eats it.  Tags and the tax on hunting equiptment actually is supposed to help manage habitat and make the animals more healthy.  I would say the great population of animals that we hunt is proof positive that hunting is very good for the over all health of the animals.  In order for us to live something has to die.

[J-dog]

I think the people who somehow believe or teach their kids that all animals get along and the cute cuddly - mother nature is so nice theory (not sure a better way to describe) are really living in such a disconnected dream world.

I enjoy, love nature in all its grandure, from the pure brutal side, death and all, to all the little neat things you may happen to see being out there. Saw a little lizard eating a cockroach the other day! cool.
To love nature for me is to embrace and participate meaning something, I hope, is going to fall prey to me, and then feeling of coming home with meat - very cool, and truly my family eats alot of wild game.

Yep - I hunt, I fish, and I trap - enjoy it all. Now you could get into the whole enjoyment of the process of getting ready for the hunt, and the comraderie(sp?).

J

[mrpenguin]

Originally posted by leatherneck:
First off, I never regret harvesting an animal. The day I regret it, I'll quit.

Mike

I agree... to qualify.  I never regret the shot I take or the kill.  I respect the animals and their sacrifice for me.  I believe every animal taken is a gift from God, a beautiful gift.

[GMMAT]

I'm a predator.  It's innate.  I don't fight it.  I embrace it.

I don't "enjoy" killing.  I accept it as part of the cycle.

Remorse?  A little.  Regret?  Never.

[jcar315]

Genisis 1:25-26: God made all kinds of wild animals. He made all kinds of livestock. He made all kinds of creatures that move along the ground. And God saw that it was good. Then God said "Let us make man in our likeness. Let them rule over the fish in the waters and the birds of the air. Let them rule over the livestock and over the whole earth. Let them rule over all of the creatures that move along the ground."

The notion of "regret" or "mourning" an animal is foreign to me in every sense of the word. Respect? Yes! Give Thanks and Praise for? Yes! Feel bad about killing one to feed family, friends, and possibly complete strangers? Never!

I am filling the role that God intended.

[NorthernCaliforniaHunter]

I swung both ways in my day... I used to be a VEGAN for crying out loud! Then it hit me - HUNGER!

Trying to come to terms with the fact that I was wasting away and fighting my natural instincts I had a fabulous revelation one day: The least impacting, smallest footprint lifestyle a human can have is to hunt and gather. Even 'politically correct' farming is a declaration of war on the land, with boundaries and a pre-determination as to what will and will not live on a particular plot of land. It also takes a lot of trust in the Lord to set out into the wilderness and know that He provides us with the skill, knowledge and game to sustain us.

Not to mention, I don't know of a wolf, lion, or other predator who will bring the flesh of the animal together with spices from around the world, reverence from the heart and a prayerful thanksgiving amongst friends and family. We offer the animal a quicker death and level of adoration and respect that no other predator can come close to. IMHO.

[Mo. Huntin]

We offer the animal a quicker death and level of adoration and respect that no other predator can come close to. IMHO.  
Thats a fact I seen it myself.

[ron w]

Death is part of nature,all part of the never ending circle. I hunt not to kill but to hunt,and the result can feed me and my family and friends.

[straitera]

Real good thoughts here already.

Hunting is as natural as our admiration & respect for the animals we hunt. If not, we'd all be hunting at the meat market.

[George D. Stout]

NorthernCaliforniaHunter, I enjoyed your post very much.

I didn't have any ephiphany, nor any mystical awakening of any kind, I'm just drawn to the hunt.
I was introduced to it by my dad in 1954, and so it goes.

[SteveMcD]

mrpenquin... you summed it up very well. I am now in my early 50's, so I can say there was a time... there was a time in my early teens, I could walk out my back door with my longbow or shotgun. And within 50 yards, I could begin to walk all day as far as I cared to, and never worry about "private property" and "no tresspassing". Now I have been a hunter ed instructor most of my adult life, and when I look at the faces of those young people today, I see the excitement and wonderlust for adventure that I had and still have. Yes.. it is a wonderful life! And I thank God for it.  
 
I do not regret the kill. But I do have "Hunter's Remorse". These means I have compassion, and I am glad for that.
 
To quote Thoreau, on his hunt in the Maine Woods, "I went to the woods, so that I could live deliberately, to see wehat I could find there, and learn from it. So that when I came to die, I would not discover that I had not lived".  
 
And yes, I am still anxious to know, what is around the next bend.

[Broken Arrows]

I hunt because it is in my blood. All I have learned is because of a desire that has always been with me, I thank god every time I harvest any game. I didn't have a mentor my dad did very little hunting so it was the school of hard knocks. I wouldn't change a thing. I will hunt until the cycle of life takes me.

[Don Stokes]

I think that some of us are genetically disposed to hunt. I've had the urge all my life, and at 60 I've taken the lives of hundreds of animals. The only ones I regret are the ones I didn't find. The losses just make me try harder to keep it from happening again, but I'll never regret hunting or killing cleanly.

We evolved as a community, each member having traits and skills that contribute to the good of the whole. Some of us are meant to hunt, others to perform other functions that are critical to a community's survival. I'm a hunter, plain and simple, no excuses, no apologies.

[Daddy Bear]

Originally posted by NorthernCaliforniaHunter:
I swung both ways in my day... I used to be a VEGAN for crying out loud! Then it hit me - HUNGER!

Trying to come to terms with the fact that I was wasting away and fighting my natural instincts I had a fabulous revelation one day: The least impacting, smallest footprint lifestyle a human can have is to hunt and gather. Even 'politically correct' farming is a declaration of war on the land, with boundaries and a pre-determination as to what will and will not live on a particular plot of land. It also takes a lot of trust in the Lord to set out into the wilderness and know that He provides us with the skill, knowledge and game to sustain us.

Not to mention, I don't know of a wolf, lion, or other predator who will bring the flesh of the animal together with spices from around the world, reverence from the heart and a prayerful thanksgiving amongst friends and family. We offer the animal a quicker death and level of adoration and respect that no other predator can come close to. IMHO.

I enjoyed reading the above post.  Thanks!

[mcgroundstalker]

First... Allow me to say that the words "sport" and "hunting" will never be used by myself in the same sentance.

Second... Regret? I think not. Don't confuse the need to celebrate our human condition and where it puts us within the hunt. When my (our) emotions stir after taking a game animals life the feelings are deep with thanks to our creator. Maybe that can be confused with remorse, but not for me.

Sometimes I feel the only "real" things in life are the love I have for my wife and... Hunting. Work, bills puttin' up with the BS in the city is all so I can keep a (lifestyle) of a hunter.

Thank You! Great Topic...

... mike ...

[Bonebuster]

It is easy to seperate yourself from the fact that your life depends on something else dying if you only buy your meat pre-packaged. The guts, and volumes of blood are dealt with by someone else. Somehow, the animal is less dead...cleaner, easier. Far too many people would rather not think of how the meat became available to them.

Hunters do not feel uncomfotable with this, because we have long ago realized our place, and that no matter how "civilized", we are NEVER removed from the cylce of life. Even a person who consumes no meat, is not above causing the death of animals. Being alive causes death.

Having reverence for all life is a natural state of being, just as being a predator is a natural state of being. The more civilized we become as a society, the further from ANY natural state of being we get.

The question of ethics may actually be NOT teaching our children the truth about where our food comes from.

 A chicken coop in the backyard to show little girls that eggs do not come from a store. The reality of raising a turkey for Thanksgiving dinner, when the time comes for the difficult task of plucking the feathers, and stinky guts.

When these things are not taught to a young one, they become difficult, if not impossible to fully grasp as an adult.

Not teaching the truth...now there is a question of ethics.

[ChuckC]

In order for me to live and thrive, something else has to die.  I didn't design the system, I may not even like it.  It is, however, ingrained in me and my make up, maybe on a cellular level.  I can certainly live without hunting, but I don't want to and choose to participate, for a lot of reasons, the most outward is that    it is what I am.  

I am not gonna hide behind a butcher's apron and eat meat but despise the part about killing.  I am not gonna be a vegan, or even a mere vegetarian . . .  ever.  

I am, therefore I hunt.
ChuckC