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Author Topic: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!  (Read 790 times)

Offline Indomitable

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Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« on: August 02, 2009, 06:31:00 PM »
Hello Traditional Bowhunters,
I am relatively new to this website (made aware of it by my brother "NorthernCaliforniaHunter") and have shot a compound bow for some time (I've been hunting for 15 years).  My brother has been encouraging me to try things the traditional way and now that my son is 15 I believe it is a great time to try it together and hunt with traditional bows.  Every year we head out to the wilderness, so the concept of a takedown is very attractive....as is lightness of weight.
Please share your expertise as to what we should be looking at....especially if you have a nice bow (or two) in your collection that would fit our needs......as an Architect, I am driven by "eyecandy" and "craftsmanship"....to which my wallet does not always agree.
My son is 5'8" and 145 lbs.  (I guess he has about a 26 inch draw.  I am 5'10" and 225 lbs. with about a 27 inch draw....with my compound....I've hunted with a range from 55lbs to 70 lbs.
Your advice is greatly appreciated!!!
----------------------------
Jose A. de la Cruz, AIA

Abbott LB, #56 @28", 64"
Bear Montana LB, #55 @28", 64"
-----------------------------
"Soli Deo honor et gloria"
San Juan de la Cruz (16th C.)
-----------------------------
-----------------------

Offline Benny Nganabbarru

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2009, 06:43:00 PM »
Head to the Trad Gang Sponsors List at the top of the page, and browse through them. You should see plenty of take-down bows at various price ranges. When some catch your eye, you can do a search here on Pow Wow, and bring-up pages of information and pictures.

Before you buy a bow, try to head to a shop or a range, and try a few. See if you can get measured-up for your draw length. If you decide to get a custom bow, it can be made for your draw length. If you get a second-hand or off-the-shelf bow, the maths is minus three pounds for each inch less than 28", and plus three pounds for each inch over 28" (approximately). You'd also be able to get an idea for draw weight if you tried a few.

All the best with it!
TGMM - Family of the Bow

Offline Indomitable

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2009, 07:23:00 PM »
Thank you Ben,
I went to the local shop (only one I know of in San Jose, CA) and got measured for arrows.....my brother just about keeled over laughing and called me "monkey" when I repeated what they told me "that I had a 31 inch draw" and they cut my carbon arrows (3555) to that length.  They mentioned that that size would work for any recurve/longbow in the poundage I would be hunting with.  That's before my brother sent me a link to information on arrow tuning.....
Anyway, I don't know how much I can trust the local shop for archery information.  Their expertise truly is firearms.  Also, I have a question as to the minimum legal "poundage" of a hunting bow in California.  If anyone out there knows please let me know.....as I can't find it in the regulations.
----------------------------
Jose A. de la Cruz, AIA

Abbott LB, #56 @28", 64"
Bear Montana LB, #55 @28", 64"
-----------------------------
"Soli Deo honor et gloria"
San Juan de la Cruz (16th C.)
-----------------------------
-----------------------

Offline Benny Nganabbarru

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2009, 07:29:00 PM »
Ah, yes. I forgot about that factor. There're many shops that sell wheely bows here in Australia, camping and firearms shops, and they really have no idea about archery. Perhaps the range would be a better place. Or, see if you can find some CA TradGangers.
TGMM - Family of the Bow

Offline pktm

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2009, 07:59:00 PM »
Lightness of weight --- look at a one piece recurve like the Toelke Chinook. Made to outlast, very light in the hand, dynamic shooter, fantastic to look at.
T/D's are usually heavier than one piece bows. Also a short one piece bow has longer limbs that to me make the bow more comfortable to shoot.
Fundamentally the marksman aims at himself

Offline Indomitable

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2009, 01:46:00 AM »
Interesting....I like the Chinook very much...and also the 3 piece takedown with the bocote riser and juniper limbs.   Both of those bows would be much lighter than the compound bow I've been lugging around.  I am attracted to the takedown because it can live in the pack until I've set up camp....whereas the one piece would be all scratched up and would hang up on the manzanita bushes and brambles during the hike.
Question:  I see the number of brace height choices being offered.  How is that measurement determined and does it vary from recurve to longbow?  In making a selection....assuming there is no archery shop that can answer questions credibly in the vicinity, what is the best course of action?
----------------------------
Jose A. de la Cruz, AIA

Abbott LB, #56 @28", 64"
Bear Montana LB, #55 @28", 64"
-----------------------------
"Soli Deo honor et gloria"
San Juan de la Cruz (16th C.)
-----------------------------
-----------------------

Offline Slasher

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2009, 04:46:00 PM »
Indomitable...
I am no expert and have been just where you are now...

Go for what you like.. My suggestion is to look for a local trad group or shoot in your area and go, trad folks don't mind sharing so much so you could try lots of bows...

Heavy/light- longbows tend to be lighter than recurves... Just as in compounds, brace height and nock to nock length(ATA) tends to be more forgiving... 2 pc tends to be lighter than 3 pc etc.. My LB is than a lb... but it's one pc... but I shoot it better than my 3 pc TD recurve...

Recurve vs Longbow- coming from compound most folks go to recurve as the grip is somewhat similiar, but many of the newer hybrid longbows are the same... as they have a grip while smaller than most curves they do help induce a repeatable grip quite easily...

I like toelke bows, but am a whip man personally.... for me, I like the grip and the thumb rest, seems to melt in my hand like butter... But there are plenty of bows that will work just as well... One thing you'll figure out is that less fiddling and more shooting with trad...
Expect the best. Prepare for the worst. Capitalize on what comes.
                                        ~Zig Ziglar~

Offline Indomitable

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2009, 04:57:00 PM »
Thanks Slasher,
I like "less fiddling and more shooting with trad...." part.  My concern still remains how do you pack your bow in when it's one piece?  Do you find it hanging onto branches as you hike when it's strapped to your pack?  I have a tactical pack that was designed for rifles....that can also carry 2 or 3 piece take-downs plus some arrows neatly protected between the pack's frame and the pack.
----------------------------
Jose A. de la Cruz, AIA

Abbott LB, #56 @28", 64"
Bear Montana LB, #55 @28", 64"
-----------------------------
"Soli Deo honor et gloria"
San Juan de la Cruz (16th C.)
-----------------------------
-----------------------

Offline pktm

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  • Posts: 119
Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2009, 05:05:00 PM »
The Chinook has the same grip as the Whip. If you did buy a Toelke, Dan is always happy to give you as much info as possible. If you are worrying about packing the bow, another benefit of a Toelke is he gives you a great leather case for your bow. So keep it in the case until you are ready to hunt.
Fundamentally the marksman aims at himself

Offline pktm

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2009, 05:08:00 PM »
Also might add that I'm not positive on the weight of the Chinook but it has to be the lightest recurve in the hand I've held, as light as any Hill longbow. So weight is not an issue at all with the Chinook.
Fundamentally the marksman aims at himself

Offline straitera

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2009, 05:08:00 PM »
Much welcome to you & your son! Keep it fun & you'll always benefit. Too many options to make a mistake. What do you prefer (LB or Rcv) & why? Visit various shoots and try different bows. All will be lighter than your compound and you'll be surprised at the simple integrity & efficiency. My preference is heavier Hill longbows over 68" for smooth speed and grace.
Buddy Bell

Trad is 60% mental & about 40% mental.

Offline tarponnut

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2009, 05:33:00 PM »
You may want to have your draw length checked again (5'10" 31" draw?, I guess that's possible).
They probably cut the arrows to 31" so it would leave extra room for your broadhead, but I would imagine your draw length is less.
Just don't overbow yourself poundage wise.
I shoot a Martin Hatfield takedown but it is a little heavy in the hand.

Offline Slasher

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2009, 05:39:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Indomitable:
Thanks Slasher,
  My concern still remains how do you pack your bow in when it's one piece?  Do you find it hanging onto branches as you hike when it's strapped to your pack?
at less than a lb, I just carry it in my hand.. but then, here in the land of whitetails... you never know when one will try and run you over...

Yep it does catch in the really thick stuff, but a longbow is open at the nock and thin, so very little actually catches on it brush wise... Now, some places on public land, I use the recurve- break it down and put it in the pack and ride in on my mountain bike...

You are on the right track, my suggestion is to try as many bows as you can, if not look for a bow that does something for you!

Bows are truly like women.. They are all different, you can appreciate the beauty and quality of all of them, but there will be at least one that you fall in love with.. And once you do, just embrace it with all the trials and tribulations that come with it..
There will be many other beauties that call your name, but stay true and work it out till at least you learn to shoot that one bow well... understand what you like and dislike about that bow, before jumping to another bow...

I started with a '67 bear recurve, moved to a 3pc recurve and then went to the whip and haven't looked back... I got a second one in heavier weight, but then Dan made the grip to fit my hand- as a smaller than avg fella, a custom bow grip made all the difference in the world to me... This is less tech and actually a step back; it's more emotional than it is logical...

Just embrace it... Enjoy the ride... and welcome to the stick-n-string...
Expect the best. Prepare for the worst. Capitalize on what comes.
                                        ~Zig Ziglar~

Offline Dave Bulla

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2009, 11:29:00 PM »
Welcome!

Recurve or longbow....?  I personally prefer a longbow but have about 15 recurves and two longbows.  Mainly I bought all the recurves because I got good deals on them from yard sales and the big online auction site.  Never paid over about 75 or 80 bucks for any of them and got some for as little as 5 bucks.  My longbows though were both custom made for me personally.  One of them is my "go to bow" 99.9% of the time.

Like slasher said, just carry the bow in your hand.  My longbow weighs a little more than a pool cue and at 66 inches long there is only 33 inches sticking out to the front when it's held horizontal at my side.  Nothing at all if held vertical.  I used to fly fish with a 9ft fly rod in thick nasty creeks in PA and never had much of a problem toting that thing around so the bow is a piece of cake.  If you are climbing mountains and need your hands free, I could see the need for a takedown model, otherwise not so much.  I personally prefer the looks of a two piece (look like a one piece) and there are multiple styles from hinges to sockets, quarter turn fittings and bevel locks.  All work.  The big benefit of a three piece is you can later order another set of limbs in a different weight or length.

If I were you, I would look for a used one piece recurve bow on line in the 45 to 50 pound range at 28".  Keep things under a hundred dollars.  And yes, that's not too hard to do with recurves from the 60's and 70's if you don't have your heart set on something collectible like a Bear.  Lots of Ben Pearson, Root, Herters, Shakespear, Wing etc options.  

Since your draw and your sons draw are both under 28" you will be pulling less weight than what is marked on the bow but learning will come faster with a weight that is zero strain.  In just a few weeks, you will be able to pull more weight and will also have had time to try to hook up with other trad shooters in CA or find a trad shoot to go to.  Most shoots have vendors selling bows and sure as shooting, you will get a bad case of "new bow-itis".  You will find something new, custom and exotic that shoots like a dream and you'll want it BAD.     :biglaugh:    

Since you only spent a pittance on the used recurve you started with, no big deal.  Buy the new one, sell the old one or, if you're sentimental like most of us, keep it and use it as a backup or maybe for bow fishing. (Talk about a sport that will turn a bow into a beater!)

Come fall, the 45-50 pound bows will work just fine for deer if you don't move up to something else newer and stronger.  Just be honest with yourself about your ability and keep all shots inside your slam dunk shot range and 40 pounds will do the job just fine.
Dave


I've come to believe that the keys to shooting well for me are good form, trusting the bow to do all the work, and having the confidence in the bow and myself to remain motionless and relaxed at release until the arrow hits the mark.

Offline NorthernCaliforniaHunter

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2009, 01:12:00 AM »
"You are on the right track, my suggestion is to try as many bows as you can, if not look for a bow that does something for you!

Bows are truly like women.. They are all different, you can appreciate the beauty and quality of all of them, but there will be at least one that you fall in love with.. And once you do, just embrace it with all the trials and tribulations that come with it..
There will be many other beauties that call your name, but stay true and work it out till at least you learn to shoot that one bow well... understand what you like and dislike about that bow, before jumping to another bow... "

Slasher hit it right on the head, brother. Nice to see you on the website. Coming over from the darkside, stabilizer?    :smileystooges:
"...there are no words that can tell the hidden spirit of the wilderness, that can reveal its mystery, it's melancholy, and its charm." Theodore Roosevelt

Find me at ShareTheBounty

Offline NorthernCaliforniaHunter

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2009, 01:16:00 AM »
Just did a quick search... There's 10 tradgang members in San Jose alone.    :campfire:
"...there are no words that can tell the hidden spirit of the wilderness, that can reveal its mystery, it's melancholy, and its charm." Theodore Roosevelt

Find me at ShareTheBounty

Offline Indomitable

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2009, 01:43:00 AM »
Thanks Dave,
I am listening.....and, I am struggling with the very real desire to have a "strong and manly" bow....I need to get started with the minimum legal poundage in CA, and perhaps a little more....
I've heard from my brother that it is 45 lbs.
I've also heard and read plenty about choosing too strong a bow and having to deal with shoulder issues later.....not a way to conduct a successful hunt - which in the end... is truly my end result/goal!
----------------------------
Jose A. de la Cruz, AIA

Abbott LB, #56 @28", 64"
Bear Montana LB, #55 @28", 64"
-----------------------------
"Soli Deo honor et gloria"
San Juan de la Cruz (16th C.)
-----------------------------
-----------------------

Offline Dave Bulla

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2009, 01:54:00 PM »
I just did some googling and found a reference for hog hunting where they did not mention a minum weight but rather that "a bow must be able to cast a hunting arrow a minimum horizontal distance of 130 yards".

Here is the link.  The archery part starts on page 15 of the pdf file.

  http://www.dfg.ca.gov/publications/docs/pigguide.pdf

I'm actually surprised at the amount of common sense in this CA regulation....  Now, just need to find the definition of a "hunting arrow" and also if this applies to all archery hunting or pigs only.
Dave


I've come to believe that the keys to shooting well for me are good form, trusting the bow to do all the work, and having the confidence in the bow and myself to remain motionless and relaxed at release until the arrow hits the mark.

Offline Dave Bulla

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2009, 02:02:00 PM »
Just found the same requirement in the general mammal hunting regulations.  See line (f) in the below link.

   http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/current/mammalregs.asp#354  

*note*

When the page loads, it comes up on the main page.  Do nothing at first and it will go by itself to the actual section with the reference to archery reg's.  

That section is #354, line (f)

Line (c) looks like it describes a "hunting arrow" as simply an arrow with a head that will not pass through a 7/8" hole.  So broadheads must be greater than 7/8" wide but probably can be on any arrow?
Dave


I've come to believe that the keys to shooting well for me are good form, trusting the bow to do all the work, and having the confidence in the bow and myself to remain motionless and relaxed at release until the arrow hits the mark.

Offline Indomitable

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Re: Advice.....and, bows wanted.....please help!
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2009, 02:23:00 PM »
Thanks Dave,
Are you aware of a calculator that would translate poundage/approrpriate grain weight arrows to travel distance?....and, is that travel distance measured horizontally, 10 degrees up from horizon, what/how?  The regulation, other than broadhead size, is not all that clear.
----------------------------
Jose A. de la Cruz, AIA

Abbott LB, #56 @28", 64"
Bear Montana LB, #55 @28", 64"
-----------------------------
"Soli Deo honor et gloria"
San Juan de la Cruz (16th C.)
-----------------------------
-----------------------

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