state antler-pt restrictions

[geno]

Do you think states should make up antler restrictions ? IE: 4 on one side or similar for deer as missouri has done for the northern 2/3 of the state.

[geno]

another question I was going to ask is should trad archers have the same pt restrictions as gun hunters..

[smokin feathers]

We got sacked in all the eastern part of the state with 13" or better or a unbranched antler on 1 side. seems to be the popular vote for now here.

in the test counties they started out in the people have loved it and they have expanded it every year since.

[geno]

My county was just added this yr..

[caleb7mm]

we are 1st buck any size 2nd buck 4 on one side or better and 10 does. But I have seen the benefits of not shooting anything but mature deer also.

But to add to that, not everyone is a mature deer hunter. That is why I like the 1st buck any size rule. I am a meat hunter these days and go out to enjoy myself.

[acadian archer]

Generally not in favour of these types of rules. In some situations they may make sense for the herd but usually these type of rule are made to increase the economy. Big antlers generate dollars for the government agency and usually have little to do with the healthy management of the deer resource.

And they are a resource and they should be managed according to the best interest of the herd not for publicity, big horns or tourist dollars

[Ryan Rothhaar]

I'm all for (voluntary) selective harvest.  That said, in any kind of a decent deer herd point restrictions are meaningless, or even counterproductive, in my opinion.  In the midwest, at least, a 4 pt on one side restriction just means the up and coming 18 month old bucks are fair game and the lesser ones (from an antler perspective) are protected.  I fear this only leads to high-grading of quality (once again speaking from an antler perspective) animals.  The only real meaningful restrictions would be an age restriction but absolutely not enforcable and would be a nightmare for a game department.  Education of the hunters is the only path forward here.  If you want to see meaningful quality enhancement (remember, we're talking antlers) just look at what private landowners are doing - VOLUNTARILY.

Herd control/carrying capacity is a numbers thing - game departments can have an impact on that.  Antler quality is a more difficult beast to track down.

The most meaningful impact a state can have on mature deer (that is protecting them to gain maturity) - which, by the way also leads to a healthy herd - is imposing a reasonable gun season that does not coincide with the rut.  Just compare IN/MO (long gun seasons, rut) to IL/IA (shorter gun seasons, not in rut).

R

[Don Stokes]

My hunting buddies in MO are excited about the restrictions. We expect to see an improvement in the quality of the bucks we're hunting. We passed several good 6-pts last season that might be really nice this year.

Some states really need it, like MS. We have a 4-pt. rule, both sides total. Exception: youths that have never taken a deer can take a smaller buck. I wish it was 4 pts. one side. Our season is so long (you can deer hunt from Oct. 1 until Jan. 31) that there's too much pressure on the buck population, and too few make it to maturity. The restriction gives the spikes a chance to grow another year, and some of them will have decent racks at year 2. Our rut is so late (mid Dec.- Jan) that spikes are common the first year, even on bucks with decent genetics, just because they're born late. Fawns are just now showing up here. Researchers at MS State raised a spike to a B&C class buck in their deer pens.

Meat hunters can always shoot does- most people think they're  better on the table anyhow.

[Steel]

I have no issue with any type of point restrictions but feel kids under 16 years of age should be free to shoot whatever they choose.If I would have have had to sit and pass buck after buck at 12 years of age I may have lost interest in hunting at that time and be playing video games right now instead of hanging out in the woods.

[d. ward]

We have had the antler restrictions in place here in Washington for several years 3 point minumum on one side.Yes archery is the same antler restrictions as black powder and center fire hand guns and rifles.And yes it sucks big time.bd

[jcar315]

In the past I have hunted in PA where it was 3 points on one side for a legal buck.

Caleb7mm, I do like the 1st buck any size rule in that allows for all sorts of hunters to be able to take an animal. Youngsters, older hunters, etc. In PA it was 1 buck period. No 1 buck for each "season" or type of weapon. If you shot 1 buck your season was over unless you had a doe permit which you have to apply in August for. IMO I didn't like the way it was done in PA (which after 6 years is why we sold our land there)

Ryan makes a super point and one that I was seeing on our land in PA. If you shoot all the "higher potential" bucks at a young age you are left with a bunch of bucks with "lower potential" racks running around (breeding and there to be hunted) On our cameras we were seeing a bunch of really BIG 6 pointers. Not to say that I would have been against shooting one of them but it seemed odd that there were several bucks on our small piece of land that were big deer but only with 6 points. Seemed all the potential top end bucks were gone.

I don't have the answer but love shooting does and like it here in MD where you can shoot quite a few with no special permits etc.

[kadbow]

We have had it for elk for years and it has helped to get a few older bulls which is good for the herd.

[SteveB]

NO to mandatory AR - voluntary is a great idea if one is so inclined.
If it is implimented, it should be for all.

From a recent NYS DEC report on trial wmu's result:

 

The proposed antler restriction was designed to protect most yearling (1.5 year old) bucks from harvest, allowing for greater numbers of bucks in the 2.5 year old age class and

likely a small increase in 3.5 year old and older age classes prior to the subsequent hunting seasons. For hunters seeking to see more 2.5 year old bucks, antler restrictions may be effective.

However, antler restrictions may be only minimally effective for hunters desiring to take more, older bucks. Data from New York’s current pilot antler restriction program reveals only a slight

increase (about 6%) in the average number of 2.5 year old and older bucks harvested after several years of antler restrictions despite a dramatic reduction (about 65%) in average yearling

harvest.

Common reference to “mature” or “trophy” bucks reflects a misconception about the potential outcome of an antler restriction program despite Department efforts to educate hunters

about this issue. Bucks typically do not reach maturity (maximum body mass and antler growth)until the ages of 4.5-7.5 years, and hunters and non-hunters should not expect a noticeable

increase in bucks in these age classes due to an antler restriction program as proposed, particularly in areas with high hunting pressure

 

Mandatory AR is not about getting true mature bucks - it's about getting a little more horn on them before killing them at 2 to 3 1/2 yrs.
Steve

[James Wrenn]

No to any type restrictions on deer other than bag limits.A deer is just a deer and it should be up to each hunter what he wants to kill.If you don't want to shoot one for any reason no one is there to make you shoot.

In the same light no one should be able to tell you what you can't shoot.Everyone that hunts is not all about antlers.When you make such a thing a law you are putting restrictions on those people just because others think different about things.

Don't tell me what I should or should not shoot unless I am hunting your property or club.I can make my own decision on my land or public land. jmho

[spike buck]

Most people around me pass on the small bucks. I definately have seen a difference in the amount of mature deer in the area. However, if a hunter of any age is taking their first deer and a spike happens to offer a shot than by all means it is a trophy. If you are meat hunting a doe will do just fine! Anticipating a MONSTER is what really gets your blood boiling. If everyone shoots the small ones and the chances are slim that a trophy is in the area that part of the hunting experience is gone IMO.

[pseman]

Here in Alabama, last year was the first year that a limit on number or and size of bucks was started. Pretty much impossible to realisticly enforce however. You can still shoot 2 bucks of any size but the third has to have at least 4pts on one side.  

I like the idea of restricting the number of bucks taken and allowing 2 bucks of any size is more than adequate in my opinion. However, I don't like mandated size requirements in general for the same reasons as others have stated. Besides, the vast majority of hunting in Alabama is done on private property and voluntary size limits are already in place in most places.

[L82HUNT]

My farm in Gasconade County Missouri, the 4 pt on one side rule was put in many years ago here.  I know for a fact we see more bigger deer then before it was put in.

My farm in Pike County Missouri has just put it in.  This area already has some monsters but I belive it will only help. Although I believe the youth season they can still take whatever size deer they want.  A good thing in my book.

[Buckeye Trad Hunter]

The reason there shouldn't be point restrictions is that the number of points don't have anything to do with age of the deer.  I have personally witnessed a buck on the property that I hunt that never grew more than forks his whole life.  Now what happens in this situation?  What happens is you have to let this deer with poor genetics go and continue to breed with the herd because you can never shoot him because he only has two points on each side.  On the flip side I have seen atwo yesr old buck with ten points.  You can not tell anything about a deers age by his antlers period.  Different genetics and different nutrition in different areas make the racks in each area or on each deer within the area differ.Just because a deer is a 140" 10 point doesn't make him mature, just a buck with good genetics.

[Buckeye Trad Hunter]

While I'm at it what about the people who aren't antler hunting.  They have the same rights as everyone else.  Now they can't shoot a six point that may be the best deer in their hunting area because someone decided that we have to shoot bucks with at least four on one side?  To each their own but I don't see where this is going to help the sport in the long term.

[NorthernCaliforniaHunter]

YOU GET TO TAKE 12 DEER A YEAR IN GEORGIA??!!!!  :eek:  

Pack the bags honey!