Heavy # effect later in life?

[Michael Arnette]

I am 21 and enjoy shooting moderate draw weights 70#-75# I was wondering if any more seasoned bowhunters would have any input on any long term effect of these weights on the shoulder and how to combat them if you have experianced them. What has been your experience?

[reddogge]

I believe it's a natural phenonemon to drop poundage as you age.  It also is a given you will injure or strain something in your joints, elbow, shoulders as you age.

I'd say when you are young, go for it but at the first sign of injury or strain I'd back off a little.

I wouldn't call 75# moderate though.

[snag]

I think it depends on the person. Some people work out and take care of themselves so their bodies last longer. Some are just not born as physical as others so it can take a toil on them sooner. Some don't want to give up the poundage they have shot in their younger years and suffer for it. If you stretch and lift weights or workout in some form and take care of your body it will most often take care of you.

[pktm]

I'll say alot depends on how you draw your bow. If you are drawing the bow with your shoulder in a pinched position, you are heading for trouble.
If your are feeling tension in your shoulders, neck and upper back at full draw, you are creating way too much tension. At 21, you are young enough that your body recovers faster. But either way, over a long period you will have issues. If you draw the bow correctly, where tension at full draw is isolated to mid upper back, you'll have less tension on the shoulders. ever wonder why archers have shoulder pain and have to have surgery and such. Hardly anyone complains from back pain from shooting. They key is how you draw the bow, for me its keeping the draw elbow low as I raise the bow, and slowly straighten it back to anchor, My drawing elbow never raises above my anchor. Coming low that way assures far less shoulder movement or rotation.

[LimbLover]

Shoulders are easily injured and impossible to ever get back to being as good as they used to be once injured.

I'm still feeling pains from a minor tear I had in high school wrestling. That was 11 years ago and it still aches.

You have to take care of them.

My wife is an athletic trainer and recommends rotator cuff exercises with light dumbbells. Glucosomine also helps - especially when you get older.

It ain't the muscle - its the joints. I think the best thing to do preventative wise - would be to get a takedown or another lighter bow - shoot it most of the year and then switch to your heavy bow a couple months before hunting season. Depends on how much you shoot too.

Also, if you are like me you want to shoot all day every day. DON'T. I have to tell myself to stop. When I start shaking and it isn't enjoyable - shoot is over.

[BRONZ]

If 70-75# stickbows are in the "moderate" weight category, I'm in the ridiculously light weight girl'y-man category!  
You have plenty of room to decrease draw weight over the years if needed.  I always tell patients to let pain and fatigue be their guide-- you're body will tell you when you've had enough.  This is applicable during a single practice session or across many years of shooting.
Otherwise, you have great advice in the previous two posts.  Let me know if you experience something specific, and I'll try to help.

[hunt it]

Michael,

I'm 45 and have been shooting 70 to 75# ers for 6 or 7 years now. Regular upper body excercising and regular shooting keeps shoulders in good shape. We are all build different. I know a fellow that is his early sixties and he shoots a 90# plus longbow everyday.

[Curtiss Cardinal]

I shot the same and heavier at your age,70-80 pounds. If and it's a big if,you stay in shape aka keep your muscles toned and stretched, and always stretch before and after shooting, and eat right and say your prayers, you can, like me still shoot these weights when approaching 50. I'm 48, I had open heart surgery so I had to back down in weight for a time as my sternum healed and my chest muscles healed. I can shoot in the 70s now but shoot 60ish bows bows right now. As my only mid 70#s recurve needs a repair. I pulled a 97# longbow at Compton's and couldn't quite get it to anchor but I haven't worked out with enough weight since my surgery. Next year I should make it again. The only reason I can see for shooting over 60ish pounds is to shoot REALLY heavy arrows, as in 15 to 20 grains per pound of draw weight and still have reasonable speed.

[Chuck Jones]

I shot heavy bows, (up to 94#@27") for many years. I never felt like I hurt myself while shooting those weights. I gradually dropped in weight over the years to 60#. at about 45 years, I started having problems with shoulders, neck and elbow. I'm 55 now, and I can pull heavier bows, but I hurt bad if I do. I shoot 45# now, and hit better than I ever did, and get pass throughs most every time. When I was in my 20's, I could pull 130# to 27" with a regular draw, but I'm paying for it now.

[Steertalker]

I believe it's a natural phenonemon to drop poundage as you age. It also is a given you will injure or strain something in your joints, elbow, shoulders as you age.

I couldn't disagree more with that statement.  With proper form you should be able to shoot those kind of weights well into you old age as long as you practice regularly and keep your form and muscles fit.  And contrary to what most people think, you don't have to be a gorilla to handle those kind of weights.  Note that I said handle rather than pull.  To me there is a big difference.  

I am 5'9" tall and weight about 150 lbs wet and regularly practice with a 77 lb recurve.  My hunting bow is 72 lbs.  And am looking forward to getting my 82 lb'er that I have on order.  Oh...by the way.....I'm almost 52 years old
   

This is a 3 1/2 inch group at 40 yds shooting my 77 lb'er at the little piece of paper with one flyer low left.
 

Brett

[Jedimaster]

Nobody has a crystal ball to see into the future.  There is no way to predict your outcome based on another persons experience.  You can get some statistical data but that is somewhat subjective, opinionated, and non-scientific.  

Likewise, I can't guarantee it, but I'd be willing to bet, that you have a diminished likelihood of injury in the long run with "lower" weight bows.  I'd say shoot what you are comfortable with.  It is unnecessary in most cases to wrestle with a higher poundage than you are able to pull with relative ease from a cold condition.  

If your ultimate goal is to achieve as many quality days afield as possible then you will benefit by protecting, and listening to, your body.  There is no glory on the OR table or in physical therapy when your buddies are sending pictures of the hunt you should have been in on.

[BobW]

been hearing the word "rehab" lots amongst our bretheren.... there has got to be a reason for the injuries.  Anyone?

[Benny Nganabbarru]

Just like no two animals are entirely predictable or the same (given the same shot, for instance), a fellow's eventual reaction to such-and-such a draw-weight depends on individual genetic luck. Everyone wears-out somehow. A fellow I know, in his 70s and not a bowhunter, can't go fishing anymore or play golf, because of worn-out shoulders. My favourite bowhunting photo is of a 70+ year-old Bill Negley sprinting away from an elephant he'd just mortally hit with his 102#er. We're all going to wear-out one way or another, or several ways (Sackett's "The Doorway Buck" addresses this in a beautiful way), and for some, that wearing-out will be affected by their bow-shooting, and will affect their bow-shooting. In the meantime, I'll continue to shoot that which I fancy.

[Bjorn]

Seems everytime I crack open the site there is someone seeking help for elbow pain, shoulder or neck pain. Then there are people seeking help for rehab and those wanting advice about surgery. Others notice that? Are archers just prone to these problems through some weird coincidence? Or, is it perhaps because we are pushing the envelope beyond it's limits.
I wasn't blessed with joint-forever-young genes; and maybe doing things more in moderation woulda' made some parts last longer; but didn't happen so
nothing wrong with dropping down, and as you get smarter you can make that arrow perform like it came out of a 60# bow instead of the 50# one in your hand. It isn't how many # the bow is, it is how many grains of arrow weight and at at what speed that counts.

[Whip]

I'm sure for some people it can work.  As has been said, if your body is built for it, you excercise and keep in shape, use proper form, etc, etc, you might do well.  That being said, I personally don't take the chance.

Archery related injuries generally are the type that accumulate over time rather than a sudden onset of symptoms.  They sneak up on you, in some cases over many years.  

I had a rotator cuff problem once and never want to go through that again.  One of my good friends is facing losing his entire hunting season this year due to rotator cuff surgery.  

Maybe heavy poundage will work for you.  But I have heard of more people with problems caused by it that I won't take the chance even though right now I know I could handle more weight.

[Bill Carlsen]

Lots of people who don't shoot bows have just as many orthopedic problems as those of us who do. In fact, most therapists and or orthopedic docs I know rarely see an archer. And there are just too many conditions that are genetically connected that it is hard to determine if any one activity causes the problems. I do think, however, that with the high performance of many of today's bows that you do not need all that weight to get the outcomes  that we all want. So, my response is really a question, if you are concerned about it why play with fire? Lighten up and you will probably shoot better and your hunting success will not change a bit.

[BigArcher]

I think the main problem with heavier bows is that we don't warm up prior to shooting.  At least enough.  
I have been shooting up to 93#s for many years ( I am 50 now) and really noticed a good warm up helps.  Even in the woods. I find time to keep the shoulders loose and warm.  It really helps.

Then I go and tear my rotator cuff at work.  Go figure!

BigArcher

[Curtiss Cardinal]

Oh and after 35 Osteo Biflex or the like.

[marlon]

Yes i take alot of Osteo bi-flex for the joints. lifts alot of weights. shoot bow poundage heavier than the average bear. who knows when im old.

[bawana bowman]

I started shooting a 45# bear Kodiak at age 7, probably was 10 or 11 before actually drawing it the full 28". Since then have shot everything from 45 to 118# and have never had problems because of the weight of the bows.

I do however have a problem with my left arm which I have yet to find a medical "expert" to explain.

For no apparent reason I suddenly can not draw anything over 65#, the left arm will just collapse at about 3/4 draw. Sometimes there will be a pain in my forearm sometimes not. Then just as quick as it appears it goes away and I'm back to comfortably drawing and shooting 80 to 90# bows.

In January I hunted with my 80# longbow and killed 3 deer in a week in Alabama. By March I couldn't even get the bow to full draw.
I've had all types of Xrays, mri's, and nerve testing done and a cause has yet to be identified.
Nearest thing is that it is somehow caused by a skydiving injury which occurred back when I was a smoke jumper.( 32 years ago)

But according to all the "experts" they can see no apparent damage, nor anything out of the ordinary which they would credit to shooting heavy weight bows.
Oh, I'm now 54 and have been shooting since age 5.

But, the "experts" do all agree that my Knees are worn out. Go figure!