Heavy # effect later in life?

[bawana bowman]

Marlon, was wondering if you would respond to this post. You will be the man to watch to see if heavy weights can cause later damage.

For those that don't know Marlons new recurve is a light 150#. It's one of his lighter bows!!

[marlon]

Harold Ive talked alot of warbow shooters includeing my friend Mark who pulled a 200# warbow so far no problems who knows down the road. I lift alot of weights i do go very very heavy. Ive been hurt lifting. Never hurt myself shooting high poundage since 98. Been Blessed.

[Richie Nell]

What arrows do you shoot out of your 150# bow?

[marlon]

I shoot 2440 arrows and rock maple wood arrows.

[BRONZ]

Originally posted by Jedimaster:
If your ultimate goal is to achieve as many quality days afield as possible then you will benefit by protecting, and listening to, your body.  There is no glory on the OR table or in physical therapy when your buddies are sending pictures of the hunt you should have been in on.

This is a great point I forgot to mention yesterday.  I am capable of pulling more than 46#, but I choose not to.  I treat patients with shoulder problems all day, I don't want to be one of them.  For anyone that has experienced shoulder problems, it can be very delibitating.  There is something to be said for taking care of yourself physically through exercise; but equally as important, is knowing your physical limitations.

[jcar315]

Moderate draw weight of 70-75#? YIKES!!! Last year I shot RH and could draw my 60# longbow with no issues. Switched to LH shooting this spring and 45# will be my hunting bow weight this year. I can draw up to mid 50's but just not as free and easy as I would like. I must admit I was somewhat surprised by this. I can't wait to whistle an arrow through one with my 45#'er though!!!

[Curveman]

I think that, short of bad genes or freak injuries, that the problem often stems from a lack of overall conditioning-people shooting a bow and not much else for excercise.  We're raising a generation who only exercise their thumbs when they play video games! I believe the World Health Organization has us listed as the fattest, most out of shape generation/nation on the planet! I don't care what weight bow a man shoots. I do care that Americans are getting fatter and lazier and rationalizing their way out of a fitness program. I believe that some are prone to also rationalizing shooting light bows to deny their shame that they CAN'T shoot heavy bows! (I am excluding from this group those who are injured, aged etc.) I say this only because people have on these type posts made derisive type remarks regarding the "foolishness" of those who shoot heavy bows, etc. I happen to shoot a light bow. 62#s. No need to shoot a heavy bow-Gotta protect those joints.    But the point stands. Why surrender early to weakness out of fear of "injury down the line?!" (gist) Studies have dmonstrated that you can maintain 85% of your PEAK strength well into your eighties IF you work out and that back problems/injuries are often the result of weak abdominal muscles!

[Pat B.]

What was it that Clint Eastwood muttered in that flick ??  LOL..

[Don Stokes]

If you wait until you develop shoulder problems, it's too late. I'm trying to work back to 60#, shooting 50 now. So far so good, but at the first sign of pain, it'll be back to 40.

Moderation in all things.

[longbowman]

I'm a lot closer to 60 than 50 and I've shot 75-80# bows since I was 20.  My son is 135# soaking wet and shotts 80# all day long.  That being said it's all what you want to shoot and are willing to work at.  I can tell you that I feel sorry for you because if you put a 50# bow in my hand I may as well throw it at a deer because it's like trying to shoot a wet noodel and there's nothing there for a solid draw and anchor.  I'm currently trying to break in to a 68# bow but when I want accuracy I end up with my 76# recurve or 80# longbow.

[George D. Stout]

There's always a few guys who laugh about anyone shooting bows under 75#, but that shows an ignorance beyond ego.  To even think of chastising someone who has common sense, and wants to keep their shoulders after sixty or seventy, is ridiculous.

Curveman....40 years ago you had to look for weeks before you found anyone with a 70+ pound bow; the average bow leaving an American factory for hunting was 40 to 50 pound....mostly 45.  Not everyone is fat or weak because they shoot moderate weight bows...some of us like them and know they will do the job.  And, we normally pull them to full draw.

If you guys love your super heavy bows, then enjoy them, but know most people don't want, nor need to do the same.  I admire anyone who has the wherewithal, and want-to to do such things, but don't go  criticizing ones who don't.  That shows exactly who and what you really are.  There's more of us, than there are of you, so the goofy little insults are out of place.  Just be happy with what you're doing, knowing it isn't for everybody.

[Michael Arnette]

Ok, so 70#-75# isn't a "medium" draw weight. I was trying to not sound like I was boasting about it or anything. I shoot it because it gives me confidence in my shot and I shoot great with it(if I do say so myself).  Thanks for all the imput.

[GMMAT]

I'm 6'1" and 195#'s.  I'm a former DI collegiate catcher and a former PGA Professional.  I try to keep myself physically fit (I've run 20mi., this week, so far).

That being said....I've had shoulder issues crop up from strain earlier in life.  I had arthroscopic surgery on my left shoulder in '99....and it's now a better shoulder than it has been in years....and certainly better than the right.  I had a 50% tear of the super spinatus tendon repaired and a debridement of a Type III bone spur.

I shoot 50#'s for targets and birds from a 62" SIlvertip.  My other bow is a 62" 'tip at 62" that draws 58#'s at my DL.  I'm trying to get ready, shooting it, for a 2010 elk trip.

I can not fathom shooting 70#'s or more....and doing so with proper form.  Not doubting anyone else's abilities.  I speak ONLY for me.  My shoulders are as pain-free now as they've ever been.  In fact, I know they're stronger than they've ever been.

If you can pull off shooting 100#'s.....more power to ya.  It HAS to be an advantage....IF you can maintain accuracy and not sacrifice stealth and/or shot opportunities.

I learned a long time ago that MY limitations (in many endeavors) do not dictate the "std" (ethically, morally or in matters of strength).  I've just never seen (compound or trad) someone utilize proper form shooting very high #-age.  Never seen it, personally.

I used to say (and I still do) that well over 50% of compound shooters were over-bowed.  I don't see that as much with trad bows/shooters.....but I'm sure it still exists.

I was looking at a 2004 issue of TBM, just this morning.  In it, there was a harvest photo - Brooks Johnson (formerly of DB fame) who had harvested a Bison with a 51# bow.  It's made me second guess my choice for my elk hunt.  I "may" drop back to the 50#er.  I know I'm more accurate with it....and I think that's the only std. that's relevant.  If I don't get to that level with the 58# limbs.....I'll do just that.  I'm convinced it'll get the job done.

I'm a 5th season bowhunter....and a 1st season full-time trad shooter.  Weigh my personal opinions accordingly.

[Curveman]

I'll actually pick up my light 50# bow when I've regressed a bit and am having release problems. Just a few shots will retune me. 50 lbs. DOES feel now like "a wet noodle" as longbowman suggests and means I have to have a perfect release to hit anything. Shooting a light bow then is a great excerise.

I don't warm up as I want to practice that "first hunting shot experience" after being in a tree stand all day. (Ever see a deer give you time to warm up)? IF you are in decent physical condition and are not overbowed then I believe there is little risk of injury. Stretching can cause injury unless you have warmed up first. I have separated my shoulder twice and had to go to physical therapy as a result of that but quickly came back. I'm now 51 and frankly can bench past 300 on a bad day. Why surrender to easy chairs, canes and light bows unless you have to? Bone density, muscle quality, fluidity in the joints, metabolism-everything is improved with lifting weights. It's usually being out of shape and "weekend warrioring" that causes the problems. Every MD and excercise physiologist that I have spoken to supports this view along the lines of "use it or lose it!" Peace!  

[pseman]

I hear a lot of talk about "working out" and "being in shape" to prevent injuries. Most injuries related to shooting a bow are joint and ligament damage or tears. I'm sorry, but "working out" and being in shape will not prevent tearing a ligament/tendon or damaging a shoulder for the most part. Joint injuries typically happen over time due to long-term overuse. Ligament and tendon damage often occurs quickly but is not related to muscle strength.

For example, pitchers often damage there shoulders and elbows because of longterm excessive force applied to those joints. NOT because they are not "in shape" and not because they don't "work out" their arms. Same thing applies to the running back that blows a knee or tears a hamstring.

Plain and simple, exercising is good and will strengthen muscles and improve cardiovascular health, no doubt. Long-term exposure of joints and ligaments to excessive amounts of force WILL eventually cause injury. If not, then you are the lucky exception, not the rule.

[GMMAT]

There's not a single thing in life I can think of.....that being in shape won't enhance.

[pktm]

Being in shape does not replace drawing the bow correctly. Being in shape is a healthy path to go on but if we are talking strictly archery, then give me someone with solid, confident form any day. I've seen too many go the heavy route to "prove" something. Me, highest I go is 58. Works for me, has more than enough humph for anything here out east. usually I like to shoot around 50. I can shoot all day and enjoy myself. And thats the name of the game.

[TonyW]

I really think that 40-45 lb bows were most commonly sold back in the day because most brand new bows were bought by brand new shooters.

My first Bear dealer convinced me to buy a 40+ lb Super Grizzly in 1972. He told me it was actually 45 pounds. I was a sprightly lad (about 6'1" and 190 pounds)and really wanted a 50 pounder. I reluctantly went with his advice, and learned to shoot with that introductory weight. Guess what? After a few months, it was easy to shoot. Too easy.

What was I supposed to do? ?????

Eureka! I should go back to the store and buy a 50+ pounder from the same helpful salesman.

What happened instead? I lost interest, and retired the Grizz by the time I was 30.

Years later, on a whim, I dust off the old Bear, buy a new string, order a half dozen arrows, and begin to shoot again. My Bear dealer is long gone. I don't realize it, but I am a trad archer.

Now the internet has become the virtual campfire for vintage archers. I read good, bad, and questionable things about trad archery. I buy a 55 pound Super Kodiak. It is comfortable to shoot. I find other bows that range from 35 to 55 pounds. The lightweight bows feel like toys, but of course if shot "just right" would kill a T-Rex.

One day a 60 pound Howatt Hunter arrives at my door. Zip. Zip. The arrows fly like laser beams. The bow, though, felt a lot more than 5 pounds heavier than my Bears. It was really hard to anchor at full draw. I really never felt comfortable with the bow, and now it lives in France.

A few years go by. I picked up a 60 pound Grizzly, and it shoots fine. I work up to a 70 pound Super Diablo, a 70 pound Kodiak, a 65 longbow, and several 58 to 64 pound recurves and longbows. For some weird reason, the 70 pound Super Diablo does not stack like its 60 pound cousin. Was it the bow?

In the 21st Century I am no longer exactly 6'1" (gravity takes its toll after 57 years). I am no longer a sprightly 190. Somehow 45 extra pounds are clinging to my lean, rock hard, muscular frame. Could it be something I ate?

Today a 55 60 or even 65 pound bow is comfortable, and the 70 pounders are great shooters to keep me honest. I never shoot 300 to 1000 arrows a day. A few dozen shots - one at a time, seems to keep the rust off the skills.

The so called heavy weights release like greased lightning and shoot flat as a skillet. I am trying to keep my skills honed for that "one shot" and any bow under 55 seems a little iffy.

So now, consider this. A bunch of those mint condition 40 pound bows share the story of my first Grizz. People bought a learner bow, stuck it in the closet, and either moved up or out of archery as the compound craze hit.  These old mint bows are probably flinging more arrows in 2009 than they ever did.

[RLA]

The one thing I personally have witnessed is this; most people shooting heavy bows are not drawing their bow nearly as far as they think or claim. And the majority are snapshooting because they are over bowed and can't consistently hold at anchor. As they shoot more and more arrows and fatigue sets in their draw length and form suffer. This, like in any sport is when you are most susceptible to injury, when you’re fatigued. I shot bows up to 65# and my body told me I was headed for the knife if I kept it up. Because I like to shoot a lot of arrows in a shooting session and shoot almost everyday, I dropped down in draw # and low and behold my draw length grew and my form improved. I think we all know that a longer power stroke is like free horsepower. If I could shoot a 200# bow drawn to 32" as comfortably as my 43# @ 29" I would, but that sure isn’t the case! Everyone is different and has to find what works for them, but don't be surprised if you end up in surgery later in life if you choose to shoot heavy bows.  This is just what I have personally experienced and is not meant to offend anyone in any way. The thought of drawing a 70# bow on a 20-degree morning hunt makes my bones ache.

[Michael Arnette]

I draw to 28" with all bows heavy or light and am very careful to not get sloppy with my form. I tried drawing more than 28" for a while but the string kept hitting my arm when I shot so I backed off. Back when I was just begining and shot light bows I would only draw to 25" I shot well but didn't realize how much efficiency I was loosing with the short draw!