Your thought on carbon arrows?

[capt eddie]

Will the shafts come with brass bushings, aluminum collars, uni-bushing and g-nock?  What is all this stuff?

[Paul Mattson]

I offer the brass inserts, collars, and unibushings as options.  They come with aluminum inserts and AD's standard nock.

[amar911]

No, the shafts won't come with all those things. They only come with standard aluminum inserts and nocks which are okay but not what I prefer. If you want to have someone build the arrows for you, talk to Paul Mattson at Badger Arrows and he can give you all the information and set you up with finished arrows. He can also sell you the components if you want to build them yourself. To understand what those items are, you could also go to the 3 Rivers Archery website and look at them under the arrow building supplies. It sounds like you have not built many arrows, and if I am right about that then you probably ought to let Paul build them for you. He does a great job.

Allan

[capt eddie]

I have built hundreds of POC. I have not even looked at carbon until now.  I have 50 plus POC made up with broadheads but maybe 5 that I would trust to shoot at a deer or elk.  I am looking for a shaft that I can trust 100%.  After laying in a boat all day or thrown in the back of a truck.  Every POC needs to be checked before it is put on the string.  I want to be able to reach in the quiver and know that every arrow will be perfect.  Can AD carbon give me that??

[tj69]

To me carbon only. Yes they are ugly, and yes wooden shafts look much better. But I dont have the time to pay attention to the same weight and spine of wooden shafts.
I love to buy a dozen of good carbon shafts, knowing that one is like the other.
And also a used wooden shaft has to be checked for damages from time to time.
Just my 0,02$

[Don Stokes]

You'd best check those carbons for damage too. I've seen one blow up into such small pieces that it seemed to have disappeared.

I shot a carbon once. No, twice, out of a compound, just to see what it was like. No thanks. No soul.

Putting together a perfectly matched set of wood arrows is a labor of love, not a pain to be endured. I don't like cedar because of it's fragility- I've never understood how it came to the the "standard" for wood arrows. Any hardwood shaft is at least twice as tough as any softwood, but Port Orford cedar is the worst. I have poplars that I've shot literally for more than a decade. They're tougher than the aluminum I used to shoot, and have plenty of mass without resorting to add-ons to get the weight up. My hunting arrows are always within 25 grains of 600, depending on the spine I'm shooting and the broadhead weight.

Just not looking for the easy way out, I guess...

[amar911]

Originally posted by capt eddie:
I am looking for a shaft that I can trust 100%.... I want to be able to reach in the quiver and know that every arrow will be perfect.  Can AD carbon give me that??

[amar911]

Let's do this one more time and try to get it right!

 

Originally posted by capt eddie:
I am looking for a shaft that I can trust 100%.... I want to be able to reach in the quiver and know that every arrow will be perfect.  Can AD carbon give me that??

The simple answer is YES!!! Nothing is indestructible, so you need to check the shafts after a really hard impact, but really not other than that. The AD Hammerheads with brass inserts, aluminum collars, uni-bushings and g-nocks are unbelievably tough. You can try to damage them and will still have to really work at it before you will ruin one. I have been shooting mine quite a bit and shot them into obstacles that would ruin most arrows. The Hammerheads were not phased. At the right level of abuse any shaft can be ruined; however, the Hammerheads set up as described are the toughest and most damage resistant I have ever seen. And they will always stay straight unless you break them.

Allan

[pacopperhead]

amar911 can u show a photo of that shaft thanks in advance

[amar911]

Scott,

The arrows are not shown close up, but you can see them in several pictures in this thread:  http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=27;t=000261

I will try to take a closer picture of one of the arrows and post it here a little later.

Allan

[Ia Hawkeye]

I tried some carbons but could'nt get them to fly right. I experimented with different tip weights, arrow lengths, etc. Got tired of messing around and sold them.

I never have any flight problems with my woodies or aluminums.

To each their own.

[amar911]

Here is a picture of the whole arrow:

 

Here is a picture of the label:

 

Here is a picture showing the 100 grain brass insert (it also has two brass weights screwed into the back of it totaling 70 grains) and the aluminum collar that is placed over the front end of the shaft before the brass insert and the weights are epoxied into the shaft to hold everything together (this arrow setup was experimental, so the original epoxy job that Paul did was not sufficient to keep the screw-in weights in the back of the insert from backing out on their threads and beginning to rattle, so I pulled the inserts and weights, cleaned them up, and then used a slow set marine epoxy and loaded it up in the threads for the weights and all around the outside of the insert and weights, and that installation has held up very well):

 

This final picture shows the rear end of the arrow with the uni-bushing and g-nock installed. The uni-bushing is also epoxied in place, then the g-nock can be inserted just like any push-in nock. It is a very strong system that still allows the nocks to be rotated at any time and easily and quickly replaced in the field. I did a Robin Hood within my first 15 shots with these arrows and destroyed a g-nock, but the uni-bushing and shaft were as good as new.

 

You will notice that I had Paul do 4 inch, 90 degree, 4 fletch over white cresting on the arrow. If I had it to do over again, I would have had Paul use arrow wraps to make refletching easier. The cresting is beautiful, but will take some work when I need to take it off to put on new feathers, which I know I will have to do because these arrows will last until I lose them. With the orange fletching, I hope that will be a very long time.

Does this help Scott?

Allan

[amar911]

Look at the 3 Rivers advertisement at the top of this page. It is a 4 picture ad, so wait until it shows the collars, uni-bushings and g-nocks.

Allan

[capt eddie]

With this nock set up can you use the lighted nocks?  Do you think I can bring the weight to around 700 grains? I shoot 160 Snuffer with an aluminum adapter. I use aluminum screw in adapters on my POC.

[amar911]

With the uni-bushings installed you can only use the g-nocks. You cannot use the lighted nocks. I doubt you can use the lighted nocks even directly in the rear of the shaft because of the tapered design. If you want lighted nocks you will probably have to go with a different shaft.

My arrow in the pictures above weighs 600 grains without any point or broadhead. I was shooting 315 grain Ashby broadheads for a total weight of 915 grains. I also had another dozen arrows made up that were identical except for the color of the fletching and the absence of the 70 grains of additional brass weights in the back of the brass insert. That would make my lighter arrows 530 grains, so with a 160 grain Snuffer and a full length aluminum adapter at 30 grains the complete arrow would weigh about 720 grains -- just slightly more than what you seem to want.

Allan

[capt eddie]

The lights are just something to play with at night. If I can get the same kind of weight you have I will be happy. I just shot some carbon I borrowed from my son.  Ted Nugent specials.  I have to admit, they flew better then POC. I did have 200 gn FP on them.  I do not know the weight or spine.  I just know they flew straight. I will try some Hammerhead and try to set them up like yours.  Thanks for all the input.

[Rick P]

Several have mentioned the carbons are ugly, most are. The graphics on the Hammerhead are not the best I've ever seen but I challenge anyone to tell they are carbon without holding one close up. The "wood grain" graphics on them are as good as any arrow I've seen. And vastly more attractive than the normal charcoal color of most carbons.

[owlbait]

I think someone makes a lit nock that fits the G-nock bushing. They have several sizes now for different nock styles. With brass inserts and collars you should be able to reach 700 grains. I have a total arrow weight of 644 with a 250 grain broadhead and no collar with the uni-bushing and G-nock set-up. 3 fletch no wraps. AD Hammerhead TradLites.

[SELFBOW19953]

I have wondered about carbons.  2 years ago I watched a doe that had  most of the point side of the arrow sticking out of her. As she made her way through the brush, everytime the point hit something she'd run, then settle down, until the point hit something again.  Once she got the arrow out she walked out of sight.  A friend hit a should blade on a buck and most of the shaft was sticking out as the deer ran by me-we never found the arrow.  Since carbons don't break off easily, do the wounds fail to heal over?

[Paul Mattson]

You just described some gruesome bad hits.  How bad the wound is, determines if the deer survives or not.  Not the type of arrow it was hit with.