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Author Topic: You gotta love Yellowstone  (Read 442 times)

Offline Conner Parry

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You gotta love Yellowstone
« on: August 24, 2009, 10:35:00 AM »
I have been getting my butt kicked by the Elk this season and I wanted to post these pictures to remember what it is like getting close to Elk!
 

 

 

 

[IMG]
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Offline FerretWYO

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Re: You gotta love Yellowstone
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2009, 10:54:00 AM »
Yellowstone can give you that sense I can do this. I can get close enough. Then as soon as you cross that line reality sets back in. Ha Ha

Good pictures.
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Offline R.W.

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Re: You gotta love Yellowstone
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2009, 11:28:00 AM »
I think that our "prey" species can read the hunting regulations.

That is why you can get close to animals during the pre-season time, and after the season closes.

But, during open season, these same animals become nearly invisible, and spook at a noise as tiny as an ant's f*rt!     :)  

I am convinced that they, too, read the regulations!   :bigsmyl:

Offline centaur

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Re: You gotta love Yellowstone
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2009, 11:28:00 AM »
If elk were all as du.. er, 'acclimated to humans' as the Yellowstone herd, I wouldn't have any room in my house for more elk racks. However, I still could fit a few heads on my wall. I was just there last week and had some fun taking grizzly pics. Caught a few trout, too.
 
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Offline Conner Parry

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Re: You gotta love Yellowstone
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2009, 11:36:00 AM »
I took some of my wife's family that are from Spain, they had a blast. They asked me if they could pet the Elk, I kindly reminded them that they are still "wild" animals and we should keep our distance. I am glad that the Elk showed their faces, we were told that we could see lots of Buffalo. The only one we saw was through our Leica spotting scope on 60X high tailing it away from tourits!
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Offline PATGUN

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Re: You gotta love Yellowstone
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2009, 12:27:00 PM »
SOME ONE TOLD ME THE ELK IN YELLOWSTONE WERE IN TROBLE BECAUSE OF THE ICREASING WOLF POPULATION. IS THIS TRUE? ANYONE KNOW?

Online Walt Francis

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Re: You gotta love Yellowstone
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2009, 01:27:00 PM »
Conner, I love Yellowstone.  I liked it a lot better fifteen years ago, but I still love it and the surrounding area.

Patgun, I do not’ want to hijack this thread so I will just give the basic facts regarding the Yellowstone wolves and let you determine for yourself if the elk population is in danger.
The elk numbers in hunting units boarding the park in Montana, have decreased by over 80% since the Canadian wolves were introduced (Canadian wolves are not the same wolves that were here a hundred years ago, they are a lot bigger).  The age structure of these elk herds have increased from 5-6 years to over 12 years and the recruitment rate, number of newborn elk that make it to 1 year of age, has dropped from over 20% to less then 6%.   That being said, the elk population in and around the park before the wolves was higher than the winter carrying capacity of the surrounding areas.  Most biologists recommended the herd size needed to be reduced by 30% at that time, which could have been accomplished without introducing a non-native species into the Yellowstone ecosystem.  
I will let you decide for yourself if a 6% recruitment rate is enough to maintain a viable population of any species in the wild.
I haven’t found the elk numbers for inside the park; if anybody has a link to those numbers I would appreciate it if they would post it or PM it to me.

Thankfully, we get to start shooting the wolves this year.
The broadhead used, regardless of how sharp, is nowhere as important as being able to place it in the correct spot.

Walt Francis

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Offline centaur

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Re: You gotta love Yellowstone
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2009, 01:48:00 PM »
Walt,
+1. Strictly anecdotal from what I have seen through visiting the Park over the years, but I would say that wolves have had a detrimental effect on the elk and moose population, both inside and outside the park. Maybe Wyoming will get the opportunity to shoot a few wolves before the elk populations are further damaged.
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Offline reddogge

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Re: You gotta love Yellowstone
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2009, 04:49:00 PM »
Purely anecdotal but last year on a trip to Yellowstone I saw 3 grown wolves hunting 100 yards from a road where two busses and a dozen cars full of tourists were taking pictures of them.  They seemed to have no fear.
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Offline alligatordond

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Re: You gotta love Yellowstone
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2009, 07:32:00 PM »
Was there an elk in the 3rd pic?
DonD

Offline northener

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Re: You gotta love Yellowstone
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2009, 08:34:00 PM »
Not that I noticed alligatordond
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Offline Bowshot

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Re: You gotta love Yellowstone
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2009, 12:04:00 PM »
Good luck thinning the wolves out. They are fair game here if you have a big game license. Lots of wolves, not so many elk or moose out west. They are tough to trap, if the guy's get some at one location, the pack detours around the entire area. There are guy's that are really into it and very few are successful regularily. Somebody managed to live trap some for our friends to the south though.
Too many for the hunters in Montana and Wyoming and not enough got relocated for our tastes.
Personally I think they should be preserved in the form of rugs for the future generations to enjoy. I have arrowed 2 before I found out how hard they are to shoot, since then...none.

Terry

Offline Barney

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Re: You gotta love Yellowstone
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2009, 07:28:00 PM »
It would be nice if everyone that goes to Yellowstone would take a couple wolves home to their state.   :readit:  I've seen what they do to elk and cattle and it ain't pretty. Makes you wonder why one animal is better than others to some people.

When ya'll go to Yellowstone, honk when you drive by on your way to Cody.   :wavey:

Offline R.W.

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Re: You gotta love Yellowstone
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2009, 08:37:00 PM »
Actually, if you know what you are doing, a wolf isn't much harder to trap than most other species.

If the wolf is so hard to trap, how did they catch the ones that were released into Yellowstone?

Now that the wolf can be hunted, down around Yellowstone, I guess your "problem" will be solved.

Actually, the wolves will quickly learn that they are not harassed in the Park area, just as the elk have learned, and they will spend most of their time in the park.

Now, I would like to see actual numbers on how the elk population in and around Yellowstone has dropped the enormous percentages I see bandied about here.

It would be interesting to see what the wildlife people say about the drop in elk numbers, and if their numbers support what is being said.

British Columbia has a large wolf population, and there is certainly no huge decline in elk and moose numbers, save in a few smaller locations.

While it is easy to blame the wolf, and state that these "Canadian" wolves aren't a native species. Just what was the genus of the wolf that "historically inhabited Yellowstone" was, if not a grey/timber wolf?

I don't think that the red wolf ever ranged that far north. And seeing as how the wolves in southern BC don't recognize national boundaries, I am quite sure that they travel into northern Montana, and Idaho, or even further south.

There is certainly nothing to stop a wolf from travelling, just as elk and other animals tend to do.

And as to "what they do to elk to cattle" well, the same as we do to them. Kill and eat them.

The fact that a wolf is relegated to killing its prey by biting and tearing at that prey, is of God's design.

So, I guess we have some special "right" to kill and eat, over what a wolf has?

I would hazard to guess that wolves have been killing and eating elk longer than humans have.

Don;t have anything against hunting wolves, trapping wolves, etc. But with the bans on 1080, and other horrid poisons, I don't think that hunting pressure will make much of dent in the wolf population.

It took quite a while to poison the wolf into near extinction, so hunting will take much longer to impact on the wolf numbers.

And if you happen to kill the alpha male, or alpha female, the remaining pack may split up into more numerous breeding pairs, and that results in . . . .more wolves.

I just don't understand the vitriol leveled at an animal, that is just doing as its instincts tell it do, to survive.

Good luck with your wolf hunting. Their fur is quite nice, and makes a great throw or rug. The skulls are sold too, I am told.

Online Walt Francis

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Re: You gotta love Yellowstone
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2009, 10:39:00 PM »
R.W.,
As I requested before, I do not want to hi-jack the intent of this thread: That Yellowstone is a unique and great place.

However, since you questioned the validity of my numbers, here is where they came from: The numbers were presented directly to me and the entire Montana Bowhunters Association at our 2007 annual convention (along with a paper copy of the report) by Kurt Alt, head biologist for Region 3 (the part of Montana surrounding Yellowstone Park), for the Montana Fish Wildlife & Parks.  At that time, 2007 the recruitment rate was just over 6% and has since dropped below 6%.  Here is a link to the Final Wolf report that is on the FW&P web site;    http://fwp.mt.gov/wildthings/wolf/game.html      To get a complete unedited (not the condensed version) of  the report contact the region three office and ask for the elk biologist.  Note this condensed report only deals with elk numbers from 2002-2008, leaving out the first eight years of the wolf’s impact from 1994-2002.  The annual elk count, provided by FP&W, is printed in the local paper each year, though my numbers come directly from Kurt.  Send me a PM if you want some more references.

The difference between the wolves that were here a hundred years ago and now is a comparable to the difference between a Wisconsin and Georgia Whitetail; they are able to interbreed but there is a considerable difference in their average size.  Put in a human perspective, the average person in Norway is a lot bigger then the average person in France or Italy, natural selection forced Norwegians to adapt to the environmental conditions by becoming larger.  I base my assertion that they are different wolves on pictures of my grandfather, who was a government trapper in Wyoming and Idaho from the 1880’s to late 1890’s, the pictures of the wolves he trapped/killed then are considerably smaller then those I see from my window.  

“There is certainly nothing to stop a wolf from travelling, just as elk and other animals tend to do”.  There wasn’t anything but the environment (and Norwegians) to keep the French from moving north and getting bigger either.

“I just don't understand the vitriol leveled at an animal, that is just doing as its instincts tell it do, to survive.”    Vitriol, not really,  I actually think the wolf is a noble animal and love seeing them whenever I go to Alaska or Canada.  If we were able to control their numbers, similar to how we do mountain lions or as you are able to in Canada, most of us wouldn’t mind seeing them here.  

If you would like to discuss this further send me a PM or start a thread in the Politics’ section where it belongs.
The broadhead used, regardless of how sharp, is nowhere as important as being able to place it in the correct spot.

Walt Francis

Regular Member of the Professional Bowhunters Society

Offline JimE.IV

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Re: You gotta love Yellowstone
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2009, 11:51:00 PM »
I'm going to be fishing in the area in September.  

I'm going to drive from New Jersey to Jackson. Float the Snake and the South Fork then head to Island Park and Fish the Henry's Fork then probably up to Ennis and play around on the Madison and maybe if I have enough time stop at off at the Big Horn on the way out  :)

The real question is; Should I bring a bow?

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