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Author Topic: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.  (Read 1745 times)

Offline George D. Stout

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Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« on: August 30, 2009, 04:02:00 PM »
Two arrows, both tuned well to the same bow.  One is Extreme Front of Center...perhaps 35 percent,  the other is exact same weight, but more like 17 to 20 percent FOC.

My theory is that the EFOC, will drop more quickly on a horizontal plane than the one with less FOC.  I'm thinking this because of the overbalance of weight toward the front end would be affected by gravity (and inertia) more quickly.  

Only way to find out is horizontal shots with both at a given distance.  It would almost have to be machine shot to be a good scientific model.
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Offline Tom Mussatto

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2009, 04:23:00 PM »
George, George, George. What the heck are you doing? You are one of the last ones I would have thought to get dragged into this kind of discussion.

Ah yes, the end of another era. Gonna grab an old bow and quiver full of arrows (have absolutely no idea what the FOC is on any of them) and go play with some squirrels. I can always depend on squirrels to stay the same.   :)
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Tom Mussatto

Offline p1choco

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2009, 04:36:00 PM »
I'm going to say that conditions being equal the EFOC arrow will out fly the same distance or maybe a little further.  I think the major effecting factor would be drag.  Being the same weight, I think gravity would effect both arrows in an equal manner.  

I can visualize your theory, but I think EFOC has a step up due to efficiency.  Less drag.  It would be interesting to see the results.  I think indoors off a machine at about 20yds would yield good results.  Who's going to put the theory to test?
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Offline Chuck Wyatt

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2009, 04:54:00 PM »
Tom,

Ain't got my reading glasses on, but did you just say you "Hunt squirrels in Depends" or "Hunt squirrels with Depends"?
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Offline GingivitisKahn

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2009, 05:11:00 PM »
If so, so what?  All that would prove is that the more extreme FOC arrow would be a poorer choice for a flight arrow.
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Offline Three Arrows

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2009, 05:14:00 PM »
Tom...did you just compare George to a squirrel?  I think the lighter FOC would stay flatter.
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Offline Tom Mussatto

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2009, 05:22:00 PM »
Chuck, yes.    :)  Good to see you in here, been a long time.

Chuc, yes. And George will take it as intended...a compliment.
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Tom Mussatto

Online Rick Wiltshire

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2009, 05:49:00 PM »
My limited physics says that gravitational force is equal on objects of equal mass - as such they will fall at the same rate.
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Offline John3

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2009, 06:12:00 PM »
Gravity,, will effect both arrows differently.

They may weigh the same but both do NOT have the same mass. Mass including the inertia imparted to both arrows.

I would guess that the more weight forward (in turn getting more inertia) will fall first.

Somebody needs to test this...!!

John III
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Offline Jesse Peltan

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2009, 06:24:00 PM »
If the efoc arrows fall faster how come Ol Adcock is setting new (breaking his previous) world records with them. Efoc arrows have more momentum and recover out of the bow faster therefore the actually fly flatter. Once you account for the fact that you don't need as much fletching your arrows will be a lot flatter than low foc arrow(ps 17-20% foc isn't low 19% is efoc). I'm sure Ol has a better explanation.
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Offline HATCHCHASER

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2009, 06:43:00 PM »
Well any takers?   :coffee:
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Offline vermonster13

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2009, 06:45:00 PM »
You drop a bowling ball and a golf ball from the same height and they land at the same time(less a little more wind resistance for the larger bowling ball). Remember your physics classes folks. Gravity isn't the deciding factor in flight.
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Offline Brian Krebs

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2009, 07:02:00 PM »
Is this all about pre-season reasons for missing later on- during the season?

 You guys have NOT figured in gravity swells !!    :readit:
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Offline Jesse Peltan

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2009, 07:15:00 PM »
Vermonster, that only hold true for a vacuum. If you have two objects of equal wind resistance and different weight the heavier one will have more momentum to fight against wind resistance therefore hitting the ground sooner.
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Offline vermonster13

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2009, 07:22:00 PM »
Jesse you jump ahead to far in the lesson. Momentum wasn't going to be for a little bit yet and lead into why High FOC isn't a detriment to distance in flight.    ;)
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Offline George D. Stout

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2009, 07:24:00 PM »
Tom...I just came back from shooting arrows, and I felt the need to release some pent-up astringent vibrations that had somehow penetrated my aura....perhaps osmosis.    :saywhat:   And where have you been all this time?  It's been awhile.

Physics, schmysics...Vermonster 8^).  This is in need of real world experiment, and not dropping two items in a vaccuum.  I say that the EFOC will begin to arch more quickly due to inertial issues and gravitational pull....kinda like our first rocket tries after Sputnik to to the air.  It has to be done to prove yea or nay.

Flight shooting is done with a totally different arrow, and shot at angles that are far from horizontal, so that's not apples/apples either.
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Offline Tom Mussatto

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2009, 07:37:00 PM »
George, I’ve been under my rock. Probably should have stayed there.   :)

The bow one uses makes a big difference in the outcome. For most bows the normal laws of physics apply. However, for those few of us who shoot Hill bows the curvature of the earth also needs to be taken into account. Regardless of FOC, EFOC, PMS, etc., when an arrow is shot parallel to the earth from a Hill bow it takes days for it to hit the ground. Takes even longer if you shoot from the east towards the west.

Explains why I go through so many arrows each season. Well, OK, one of the reasons.    :)

See what you started George?
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Tom Mussatto

Offline BMG

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2009, 07:57:00 PM »
Even though I don't believe in Newtons theory of gravity I'm pretty sure that a 'D' shaped long bow will launch the efoc arrow flatter.
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Offline Blackhawk

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2009, 08:05:00 PM »
What an interesting topic for discussion!

I believe both arrows shot at/from horizontal will fly the same for the first 20-25 yards, however, the higher FOC projectile will most likely drop quicker...becoming very noticable as they approach 35-40 yards.

Why?  

Heck if I know.
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Lon Scott

Offline George D. Stout

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Re: Theory, you can guess but it must be tested.
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2009, 08:13:00 PM »
Blackhawk....I like your style.    :thumbsup:
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