Added 100 grains of trimmer string to my arrows-Glen del target issue*****

[DRR324]

4 strands in each arrow to increase from 540 to 640, now I am seeing nock high flight and impact at 15 yards.  I raised the nock a touch, and have seen a bit of improvement, but was getting tired. Thought my full draw may be lacking and quit before I could tune any better.  Will have to look over OL tuning page tomorrow- but has anyone else seen this with the string trimmer installed in their arrows?  I was assuming they wouldn't have much impact as they should be flexing with the arrow.....
Thanks>
Dave

[sweet old bill]

My response will I am sure drive some of the people crazy but for me it sure seems to be a fact that paper tuning with a hand draw and release just does not seem to work for me.

I talked years ago with AL Henderson at a Easton arrow meeing on quality bow setup and he said paper tuning works great with a shooting machine but if you set up a bow for a archer it may work or may not.

 He suggested that if you with arrows fletched got good arrow flight and checked out the setup by fine tuning the nock point that all that is required. His last step in the process was to put baby powder on the rest / riser area and shoot one arrow and check for drag marks to show the arrow hitting on the way thru the rest.

 I tried the weed eater line and that worked, but I found I like the 1/8 inch poly rope better. Easy to wrok with and you just cut it about a full 1/2 inch long and then put in your nock it will not move.

[Joseph]

I will have to agree with sweet old bill.  It is very hard to almost impossible to be consistent enough with a finger release to bare shaft or paper tune.  The people that are are shooting for the U.S. Olympic archery team.  Just my thoughts but I think a lot of people drive themselves batty trying to do it.  If a fletched arrow is spinning into the target so you only see nock and not flopping around why mess with it?

[Mo. Huntin]

I don't know why but I noticed accuracy problems with weed eater string. I will be buying stiffer arrows and add weight to the front from now on if I want more weight.

[Bill Carlsen]

DRR: I quit putting stuff in my arrow shafts years ago to get increased weight. I talked to Bob Morrison when he  was experimenting with heavy FOC a while back.... so I went that route and was much happier with the result. I get arrows that are right at 10 grains per pound, shoot extremely well, have nothing in them to pop off nocks, make noise or cause tuning problems, etc. In addition the added FOC has noticeably improved penetration on big game. I have been bare shafting my arrows out to 35 yards with no problems. I am shooting a 60# DAS recurve at 28". Arrows are Beman MFX with 100 grain inserts with 225 - 250 grains up front. They weigh in at 600 grians or so with 225 up front.

[Don Stokes]

Before I learned about bare-shafting from Dan Quillian, I experienced frustration when my "perfect" arrow flight with field points turned out to be not so perfect with big broadheads. In fact, they sometimes dove into the dirt at 20 yards! I would end up using narrow two-blades, because they were the only ones I could tune to.

If you are within 5-10# of the correct spine, your field point accuracy can be good and your arrow flight can look perfect. The big broadheads tell the tale. All the problems went away when I bare-shafted and found out I was a bit underspined. Now I don't tune without it.

Often if you're having trouble bare-shafting, it relates to getting the brace height right and the nocking point right before trying to find the perfect spine. I just went through that tuning a Super Kodiak. I wasn't sure where to brace the bow, because it's been a decade or so since I shot a Dacron recurve, but once I found that 8 5/8 - 8 3/4 worked well, then I could locate the nocking point, and everything went smoothly from there. The old relic wants 80-85# shafts with a 50# draw! I wouldn't have believed it needed that much spine until I did the tuning, and it's now shooting several different broadheads perfectly.

Narrow two-blade heads are the easiest to tune, since they can be off in spine a little more than a big three-blade, but accuracy is best with the perfect spine, and any broadhead in the same weight class will shoot well regardless of size or shape when you get it right.

Good form and a good release are important to bare-shafting, but you don't have to be perfect. I shoot repeatedly, and look for the average. After decades of bowhunting I still am not perfect in my release every time. If I flub the release, I just shoot again and again until I've see the arrow doing the same thing most of the time. I eventually get there.

Good form and a good release are just as important when the arrows are fletched, especially shooting broadheads. Practice makes perfect!

[Brent Hill]

try you broadheads with fletched arrows.  The goal with tuning is to ultimately do just that.  If you think you are close but the tuning methods, like paper tuning start going crazy, I will stop and try the bh with fletch after I've rested up and got in the right frame of mind.  If the BH consistently flys well, your done.  If not, your not done tuning.  Have you experienced more noise with the trimmer line ?  I used the same method to gain arrow weight 2 years ago and finally put gorilla glue on the string to get it to stop rattling.  Never worked perfect so I just went to a heavir spined arrow and put more weight upfront.

[Charlie Lamb]

Don's advice seems the best to me.  

[Bob Morrison]

1st,get rid of the 100 gr. line in the arrow. put a 100 brass insert in the arrow. Start bare shaft tuning to get perfect flight tune your arrow to be a little under spined 1-2" out and nock about an 1" high from fletched. Same fieldpoint weight as your broadhead. You may have to change your arrows completely. Every bow acts different, and needs what it wants,, maybe not what you have. Good advice from both Bill and Don.

[Charlie Lamb]

Oops!! Didn't mean to leave out Bill Carlson's advice.
Along with Bob Morrison, you can't go wrong.

[DRR324]

Thanks for all the responses so far.  Let me give a bit more info:
53# predator classic- pulling it to 56#, shooting 30" beman classic 400 shafts with 75 grains added to the insert.  Also shooting 150 grain razorcaps.  Prior to the string trimmer added, arrows weigh in at 540- and fly very, very well.  Like most of us here- tinkering is in our blood- I wanted to try and add a few more grains to my arrow to see if I could get my bow a bit quieter.  The bow is new to me, and isn't loud, but just thought I'd see if I could make it a dull thump upon release.  Well, the trimmer string certainly helped quiet it a touch, and enough that I'd like to stay with it.  I am not paper tuning- just visual flight with fletched arrows.  When I was first shooting the predator I noticed my groups were right by 5 inches from where my bob lees would group.  I corrected this by canting the bow a touch more and noticed improvement on the left to right basis.  With the added weight of the trimmer string, my groups have ventured back to the left a touch and more in relation to where I would shoot the lee bows.  I plan to shoot here after dinner and will begin to tinker with my nock point and brace height- I know the sweet spot isn't too far away- just have to find it......

[clayton95]

I don't think that it is the trimmer line making your arrows stiffer, but it is changing the dynamic spine of your arrows by slowing them down a bit.  This would lead to them acting a little bit stiffer.  I think that you could add a little more point weight and get them back into tune.  I tried to do what you are doing to more arrow weight but eventually went with a heavier spine and brass inserts. Hope that this helps.
Clayton

[George D. Stout]

Dump that crap outa' there and listen to what Bob Morrison says.

[Bill Carlsen]

DRR: As  much as I hate to admit it I miss animals on occaision. Since going to the heavy FOC and using Bow Hush a Hush Puppies any deer I have ever missed has not run more than 20 yards. If them come back in before it gets too dark they usually wind up in the freezer. Last year I made perfectly good miss on a huge black bear. I figured that after he ran off my hunt on that stand was over. Twenty minutes later he was back sniffing the lighted lumenok. My next arrow was not low enough and I hit him flush in the shoulder and the Razoecap fell out after fifty yards with only about an inch of penetration. The point is that silencing the string is important and the way you are weighing up your shafts, as you have found out, can create other problems. Shooting a lighter arrow with the heavier FOC will perform better for you than what you have right now, IMO.

I just reread your post. If your arrows are shooting as well as you describe without the added weight you should just leave well enough alone. Your choice of broadheads is an excellent one, too....but I am biasied...I love them  Razorcaps.

[DRR324]

Well, After messing around for another 1/2 hour, and not getting consistent flight, I pulled the string out of my testing arrows and went back to the normal setup.  Was shooting 2 razorcaps and 2 field tips- this group was from 20 yards and the one I decided to end the night with.
 
 
The difference in bow noise is minimal- and I'd much rather be happy with good, consistent arrow flight, than be second guessing to save a bit of noise...thanks for the input guys.

[James Wrenn]

Smart move.

[George D. Stout]

   Ditto on the smart move.

[DRR324]

Just wanted to address an issue with my new Glen Del target.... I shot low (1.5 inches) below the insert and toasted 2 arrows tonight..... drove the field tip and insert into the shaft on one, the other bent my practice razorcap and also drove the insert into the shaft.  Apparently the metal band inside this target is not too far from the foam insert.  Makes me think twice about shooting longer distances while practicing for fear of blowing up another arrow. Just thought I share with others- shoot higher than normal with a glen del....

[mike hogan]

nice group

[R.W.]

I tried the trimmer line thing. While I didn't notice a major change in arrow flight, the arrows buzzed terribly.

I tried a few things to stop the trimmer line from making this awful noise, but was mostly unsuccessful.

Dumped  the trimmer line, and spent more time bare shaft tuning my set up.

FWIW, my brother using silicon air line from an aquarium supply pet shop. This stuff weighs about 8 grains an inch, fits his shafts snugly (ST Epic's) and doesn't make ANY noise.