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Author Topic: Wolf or Coyote  (Read 1635 times)

Offline Woolie

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2009, 06:30:00 PM »
I have hunted Coyotes in Texas, California, Tennessee, and So. Dakota and have never killed one over 45 pounds. Coy-dogs are rare, most coyotes eat any dog that they can catch and kill. I am sure that Northern coyotes are larger than in the south and west, like deer they have to be more hardy to survive the harsh winters. i have only killed one wolf while night hunting in central Texas in the late 1970's. If you are in dought about the difference between a Coyote and a Wolf just look at there eyes and a coyote will never raise his tail above his back. Color phase will vary just like I do not look like you. I have never seen a black coyote west of the missippi but I have killed two of them in Tennessee. I hope this helps

Offline Gooserbat

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2009, 12:34:00 AM »
First I have saw two black ones in north-east Oklahama the second I missed while bowhunting. Second my brother is a Wildlife Specialist with USDA and is contracted to the state a.k.a. state trapper.  He stopped by my house today and was telling me how that they had been removing a few wolves from packs of coyotes in this eastern Oklahoma.  He said that they where thought to have come from the cute cuddly wolf pups people buy and then when they get 100 pluss lbs and eat a fourty lbs sack of dog food a week, folks forget and leave the gate open, and opps my "pet" ran away.
"Four fletch white feathers and 600 grains is a beautiful thing."

Offline recurvericky

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2009, 03:02:00 PM »
The Red Wolves in NC were not release on Roanake Island. They were release on the  Alligator River National Wildlife Refuge. The average adult red wolf weighs 45-80 pounds, stands about 26 inches at the shoulder and is about 4 feet long from the tip of the nose to the end of the tail. Originally 4 breeding pairs were released on the Alligator rive National Wildlife Refuge, today there about 100-120 Red Wolves living in Eastern NC. A webiste I was reading from stated that Red wolve eat small animals and rodents, they forgot to mention calves.
Recurvericky
Richmond, Ks

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Offline hunt it

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2009, 09:39:00 PM »

Here is a 72# female Ontario Timber wolf. This is average weight 70# -80#. Out of over 100 killed in the past 7yrs the biggest one to date my buddy has taken was 138# male. Every wolf taken is weighed. They take well over 100 yotes a year and biggest one to date is 64#. Average yote being 35 - 40 #. In Ontario we have a very good population of timber wolves. One area of the Province has a solid documented Red Wolf population as well, average red wolf is 45# much smaller than timber wolf.

Drew,
That one in the trap is 100% wolf in my books. That is the most common colour phase here, being followed by silver then black and rarest being all white.
hunt it

Offline Steve H.

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2009, 10:12:00 PM »
After recently arrowing a wolf I did just a wee bit of research.  The one in the trap is definitely a wolf, one give-away is the yellow eyes.

Wolfs are able to look forward or out the "top" of their head while they are on a scent trail unlike other "dogs".  You can tell that trapped animal can do just that.

I think it semi-random but not surprising that the trapped wolf looks similar in coloration to a coyote.  It really is a common coat coloration in the animal kingdom.

Offline Steve Kendrot

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2009, 11:31:00 PM »
Coyotes have yellow eyes too... Drew posted the most accurate coyote and wolf information I've come across on these posts yet. I studied coyotes in northern NY. Trapped and radio-collared 19 and collected dozens of hunter killed specimens. The heaviest was about 45#. Canids can consume nearly 20% of their body weight in one sitting and I suspect many of the heavier specimens on record had a full belly at the time. Coyotes can and will interbreed with wolves and dogs, most commonly on the fringes of their range where both species might have difficulty finding their own kind for mating. Coydogs are most often the result of a female coyote being bred by a male dog. Male coyotes can only breed during the early winter as they do not produce sperm at other times of the year. Male dogs can breed year round.

Coyotes can and do move great distances. A female I collared in Plattsburgh NY in November 1994 was killed on I-95 near the New Hampshire coast the following spring, over 200 miles straight line distance away. I think of this everytime I hear the DNR blamed for "releasing" coyotes. A dispersing female such as this traversing occupied wolf country could easily be bred by a wolf. Coyotes are more closely related to red wolves than grey wolves and will readily interbreed. Hybridization has been a big issue for the red wolf recovery effort in NE NC. Genetic tests have shown the Algonquin wolf in southern Ontario was likely a red wolf and may have evolved as primarily a deer predator (though they do kill moose) along the Appalachians, thus their smaller size than the Eastern timber or grey wolf. Coyotes expanding from northern Minnesota through southern Ontario likely bred with the Algonquin wolves and gained 10-15 pounds in body weight as well as other physical characteristics by the time they arrived in northern NY and the rest of new England.

I find it ironic, that while natural resource agencies often get blamed for the expansion of the eastern coyote through "covert" introductions, it was in fact hunters (houndsmen mostly) who brought coyotes to the southeastern US for their training pens. Turns out fences are as bad as keeping coyotes inside as they are keeping them out of pastures.

I also find it ironic that the thousands of wildlife professionals that have devoted their lives and careers to ensuring we all have abundant game and non-game wildlife to enjoy are so routinely bashed by weekend warriors who think that a hunting license gives one the same credentials to manage wildlife as the years of academic study, scientific research and practical field experience attained by most wildlife professionals. Oh, and most of us have an equivalent amount of hunting experience as our most vocal critics as well. Sure, there are some incompetent boobs as in any other profession, but on a whole most professional wildlifers went into the field because they love what they do, and people that love what they do generally do a pretty good job. People who've taken the time to educate themselves as Drew has are unfortunately a rarity. Most pass tall tales and wild speculation off as the gospel truth and then criticize those who work a low paying and thankless job to ensure their most vocal critics have game to shoot. Jeeze louise...

Offline michaelschwister

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2009, 04:32:00 AM »
I have long believed the "yotes" in the eastern US were really some type of eastern brush wolf.  I have seen western yotes and they are small and grey/black. I have seen others east of the missisippi black/brown and upwards of 60-70# with tall-long-thick bodies. I wish the biologists would come clean with the public on the predator issue.
"The best thing to give to your enemy is forgiveness; to a friend, your heart; to your child, a good example; to a father, deference; to your mother, conduct that will make her proud of you; to yourself, respect" - Benjamin Franklin

Offline Longbowwally

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2009, 08:47:00 PM »
I saw my first coyote in the wild while bowhunting Central NC this past week. He was a lot bigger than I thought a coyote would be, and was probably 50-60% kinda red in color....I had him within 25 yards and got a good, but quick, look at him as he fast walked through a 30 yard wide opening...Made my day to finally see one....
LONG LIVE THE LONGBOW!

Wally Holmes

Offline jcar315

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2009, 09:02:00 PM »
Late arrival to this thread. I don't know about you but if I walked up on that 75# what ever it is in a trap......a new pair of underwear would be called for!!! Holy smokes.

Super interesting thread to say the least. I don't know a whole lot about either coyotes or wolves etc. but I do know I saw a nice sized yote in a front yard on the way to taking my son to football practice last week. They are everywhere it seems!!
Proud Dad to two awesome Kids and a very passionate pig hunter.

Right handed but left eye dominant.

Proud to be a Native TEXAN!!!!!

"TGMM  Family of the Bow"

Offline recurvericky

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2009, 09:55:00 PM »
Longbowwally

I am not sure were you live in central NC but the red wolves have been found 2 1/2 hours east of the area that they were originally released. You never know what you saw could have been a red wolf. Just thinking out loud.
Recurvericky
Richmond, Ks

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Offline Longbowwally

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #50 on: October 04, 2009, 09:40:00 AM »
recurvericky,
I'm about 3 hours drive west of the Alligator River Wildlife refuge where the red wolves were stocked. I'm like you, that critter had something in him besides coyote...
As a side note, we don't have a resident population of bears in Central NC, but every year we have sightings of bears in this area. The state Wildlife group says its bears from the eastern coastal area traveling through our area - so I don't see why the red wolves couldn't do the same thing.....
Funny thing is, I always said I'd shoot a coyote on sight, and I did reach for my bow when I saw this one but he was out of my shooting lanes to quick for a shot...But, we have more turkeys than ever, more deer than ever, so I'm not sure the coyotes are hurting anything....My hunting philosophy is to not shoot anything you're not going to eat, unless its causing some kind of problem. It was so cool to see that coyote that I'm not sure I'd shoot one at this point in time....
LONG LIVE THE LONGBOW!

Wally Holmes

Offline Killdeer

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2009, 10:05:00 AM »
Steve, it was a pleasure to read your post. Well read and well said. I do not mind a nickel of my hunting license fees that go to the biologists who study and monitor the land and animals that I love, nor to the wardens who protect it from those with no respect for it.

I am wondering if there are sources or a single source wherein one could find actual biologists' reports on their wildlife studies and results by state. The official State biologists' statements could probably be dug up through search engines, but those of students at universities and colleges, who are doing grunt work while writing their theses would be interesting and useful as well. Are there other sources which could be of help in our understanding of what is really going on in our back country? Where can we go for reference?

Killdeer
Long, long afterward, in an oak I found the arrow, still unbroke;
And the song, from beginning to end, I found again in the heart of a friend.

~Longfellow

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Offline Steve Kendrot

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2009, 11:35:00 AM »
Killdeer,
perhaps it is our own fault as biologists that the public we serve is generally ignorant of our work. When we find time to write, our audience is usually fellow biologists and the resultant literature is, if not incomprehensible to the lay person, downright boring! Many state agencies do have nontechnical magazines. There are dozens of technical journals as well. The Journal of Wildlife Management, Ecology, Journal of Mammology, Conservation Biology are a few. Without a solid understanding of experimental design and statistcs they can be a chore to read. Even for professionals in the field!

Offline mwmwmb

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #53 on: October 06, 2009, 09:14:00 PM »
Quote
I also find it ironic that the thousands of wildlife professionals that have devoted their lives and careers to ensuring we all have abundant game and non-game wildlife to enjoy are so routinely bashed by weekend warriors who think that a hunting license gives one the same credentials to manage wildlife as the years of academic study, scientific research and practical field experience attained by most wildlife professionals. Oh, and most of us have an equivalent amount of hunting experience as our most vocal critics as well. Sure, there are some incompetent boobs as in any other profession, but on a whole most professional wildlifers went into the field because they love what they do, and people that love what they do generally do a pretty good job. People who've taken the time to educate themselves as Drew has are unfortunately a rarity. Most pass tall tales and wild speculation off as the gospel truth and then criticize those who work a low paying and thankless job to ensure their most vocal critics have game to shoot. Jeeze louise...
Steve, I couldnt have said it better myself. I am glad to hear you speak up. I often hear many things said or written by the public educated (other fields) or not, that make me feel quite frustrated. It often seems that people prefer to believe in Black helicopter conspiracies over scientific data.

Killie, Visit your local library and check out their databases. the often have access to abstracts and if you find an article you want to read they will do an inter-library loan to get it for ya.

Offline Chad Duit

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2009, 09:43:00 PM »
I shot a blackish/greyish coyote a couple years ago here, it was running with two grey yotes and another one the was plumb black.I will try and post a pic.

Offline Chad Duit

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2009, 10:00:00 PM »
 
       
 
By the way, that is the exit hole, he was quartering to me at about 5 yards.

Offline Steve Kendrot

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2009, 10:41:00 PM »
Thanks for the backup Mickey and killdeer. Feels kind of lonely sometimes...

Nice looking animal Chad. Black coyotes are pretty rare. I've seen red phased, but never black. Color phases are pretty unique to eastern coyotes. Possibly as a result of past interbreeding with dogs or wolves. Western coyotes seem to lack the color morphs.

Offline Steve Kendrot

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2009, 10:42:00 PM »

Offline DHR

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #58 on: October 06, 2009, 11:35:00 PM »
Steve I'm with ya, thanks for the information and for the work you do.  Chad, nice looking black yote.  never seen anything like it,
Because hunting is a deep and permanent yearning in the human condition, there is a chronic fury in all people to whom it is denied.- Jose Ortega y Gasset

Offline Chad Duit

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Re: Wolf or Coyote
« Reply #59 on: October 07, 2009, 12:01:00 AM »
Thanks guys, I hadn't seen one like that before either, the one that was really jet black looked more like a dog, wondered if the one I shot was a pup out of her? What do you guys think?

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