Stands on public land ...

[Arwin]

Three Arrows I'm with ya!
 First come first serve: I did some scouting and found the right spot before anyone else. Does my body actually have to be there for it to count or does my personal property vouch for me?
 I would love to know the person who can take mature deer every season when they have to hang a stand in the dark every time they hunt.....
 Leaving my stand up isn't rude, I found a good spot, I should get to hunt it till I'm done. I got there first.
 Whats rude is looking up at someone's stand and thinking, "Hmm this must be a good spot, I think I'll hunt it."  Wheres the skill in that??!!!
 If the "other guy" had gotten off his butt and done his homework, he'd have a good spot too. And to cry about the fact that I have a good spot and don't deserve to keep my stand there is immature and comes down to envy.
 Get out there and take pride in finding your own honey hole rather than scavenge on someone else hard work.

[m midd]

here in arkansas you can legally leave stands on public land. you are supposed to move them every 14 days. i do leave 1 stand on public land for 2 weeks, im off work and i hunt it every day. i do how ever take the bottom 2 rapid rails off to keep the honest people honest. i agree with first come first serve. Its there for everyone to use.

[Three Arrows]

Mr. GingivitisKahn, if you are currently hunting a spot and had been hunting a spot somewhere and someone puts up a stand in your area, you just had your spot f-ed up.  You can stay there and see who comes in and hope a deer comes along or you can move.  Short of registering our locations and broadcasting our hunting spots to wildlife officers and other hunters, we cannot do anything about it.  When I see someone in a location I usually hunt, I just keep on going a few hundred yards down the trail further in and hunt.  It is far enough to be out of sight and close enough to where I was watching.  I don't think of it as rude.  It may be to your advantage to go to a different wildlife area altogether if it is that crowded to begin with.  I have even resorted to hunting swampy areas and brushy areas to find solitude.  Big bucks don't like crowded hunting spots either.  I guess we will just forever disagree on this subject.  

[wapitimike1]

Use a climber, (A) your spots secret, (B) I've lost a dozen stands over the years from other so called hunters on private land. State land is a total free for all!!!

[TSHOOTER]

Originally posted by Brian Krebs:
I have to wonder if the bow season was for traditional bows only; if this would even be an issue.....

I don't change my ethics dependant upon which weapon I am using at the time.  I have and do hunt with traditional bows, compounds, black powder, modern rifle etc.  I haven't taken any one elses property and don't plan on it.  And yes I have had my property stolen on my own land.  That still doesn't justify stealing on my part and to suggest that someone hunting with something other than a traditional bow is more likely to steal my stand is offensive to me and others.

[waknstak IL]

I am happy that very few areas here in Illinois allow stands to be left overnite. From what I have seen on the areas that do allow it, there wouldn't be anywhere to hunt if they did. Just woods full of cheap lock ons and ladder stands with nobody in them.

[buckeye_hunter]

Avoid it all and ground hunt! Then you can sit  50yds behind the stand where the deer have started traveling to avoid the stand and stink that are up in the tree! No arguement to be had there.

If the owner of the stand walks in to hunt that stand WHILE you are already there....Here are the benefits...

1. You sit behind his stand while he calls/rattles and the deer come in behind and downwind of him, BINGO, THE DEER IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU!  

Seriously though.....Kahn, you and I are both VERY polite people and don't want to mess things up for others. That is why we see it as claiming a spot to leave a stand. Other people, not that it isn't ok... due to it being public land and all, just don't worry about it. Someone already said, we can't push our ethics on someone else.

Everyone has their own opinion and all we can really do in the end is listen and agree to disagree.

When I scout/hunt I love to see the woods as they would be naturally. I don't want to see stands hanging everywhere, but they still have the right to leave them I guess. It does take something from the experience for me though. Many stands left in the trees makes it look like you are hunting in some sort of shooting gallery and that does stink.

All I can do is go further away from the roads to make sure I don't see the stands. I could ask the owner to pack the stand out, but what is the sense in creating an arguement? That is why I like AEP land. I can't remember EVER seeing a stand.

This is not meant to be offensive to those that leave stands, we just have different opinions.

-Charlie

[jcar315]

It has been nearly 20 years since I've hunted public ground. Back then I was a college kid with no money so the 1 stand I owned I packed in and out every time. It never dawned on me to leave it. If it had I wouldn't have left it there anyway.

The notion of hunting around someone else, someone elses stand, or sitting in some other guys stand is so foreign to me I can't even imagine it.

I took a wildlife management class in college as an elective and took a few things away:
1. Different people have a different view of a "quality outdoor experience." My view of a QOE in no way includes seeing someone else, their stand, or even running into anyone else. Just the thought of some other dude stumbling in to his stand in the dark which happens to be close to me would spoil the whole hunt for me.
2. Most "hunters" hunt within 1/4 mile of the road or some other access point.

Like others have said: I would still never leave a stand up on public ground (regardless of the regulations), I would never hunt around some stand that was there, and would never dream of actually sitting in some other guys stand.

If I was going to hunt the public ground around my house I think I might pick a nice damp day and work on my "skulking" technique. Access to hunting ground is an issue for us all. Don't know if there is any one answer. Not everyone subscribes to the same set of ethics or standards regardless of the situation.

Very thankful that I do have some ground to hunt close by and I can avoid what sounds like what could be a very unpleasant situation on public ground.

[jhg]

Regardless of our specific opinions lets not forget the most important part of hunting land that is used by others: respect.

True Story: Growing up in northern Maine I never heard a nice thing about "out-of-staters" regarding how they hunted. Every story about them, from what they wore to how they hunted, had a negative bent to it. So imagine my surprise when hunting one day to bump into one of these guys and he turns out to be 1) more polite and deferential than ANY local hunter I had ever run into and 2) considerate and respectful.

That ONE guy changed my whole perspective by his attitude. And let me add that in the beginning I was none too friendly.

My point is it goes a long way no matter what situation you are presented with in the public woods to try your best to handle it with dignity and class.

It may well change the way another hunter approaches the next guy, for the better.

Yes, maybe you won't get in that last nasty word. But in the end you will have done something of far more value.

A better hunting experience in shared woods  starts with you. It starts with me. And that isn't new age give-me-a-hug double speak.

Joshua

[Deadsmple]

Originally posted by GingivitisKahn:
 

Originally posted by Deadsmple:
You'll never get it I tried in vain in last years thread.          [/b]

No need to be snippy.  I get it - I just disagree with you.  On the other hand, you also hunt with trad gear so as far as I know - I agree with you on twice as many things as I disagree on. [/QB]

hehehe I was in total agreement with you. Not getting snippy at all, I was just saying that I tried in last years thread to get them to admit that hanging a stand for weeks at a time on public land is rude. Like you, I couldn't get anyone to budge.    

[Brian Krebs]

Here in Idaho; the chances of finding a tree that you can use a climbing stand on is pretty remote. We have lots of spruce and other trees with branches coming out all the way up. Then too; you have to saw off the branches that block your shot.
 Then too; its often a long way to the place you hunt; and to take down a stand and steps and put them up again would make most hunts a waste of time.
 So; I put up stands; and I leave them there while I am bear hunting; although I might move around the bait to fool the bears.
 For elk and deer; to sneak into an area and put up a stand in the dark- well that would soak you in sweat so bad it would make a hunt with a stand unfeasible.
 It might be in the 60's where you hunt; but here it has been in the 80s - try carrying a stand back an hour on your back; putting it up and sitting there- its just not feasible. It may work in some remote cases.... but in most cases it is just not feasible.
 How many of you go on guided bear hunts and put up a new stand every evening?
 Some of this argument is regional. What seems logical and may be in one area is totally not logical in another.
 My point about bow season being for bows; as in traditional bows - well that would decrease the number of hunters in the field. That would decrease conflict.
 Taking a persons property could cost you your life.
 Go ahead and steal stands if you want; but it is stealing; and someday someone will make it look like an accident.
  This is so unlike the tradgang to be talking about stealing and destroying other peoples property.

[Mint]

Interesting comments. Where i hunt they let you put stands up. I will always give someone a little room if they have a stand in the area and i expect the same. But if someone comes to me, like they did a year before and wants to hunt the same area I am more than happy to work something out with him. In that situation he hunted saturday mornings and i took the evening and then we switched on Sundays. It worked out great.

[Brad_Gentry]

As someone who hunts a majority of the time on public ground, this is really an interesting topic to me. And coming from that background, I agree wholeheartedly that we shouldn't leave stands up on public ground unless we're hunting them actively, and by that I mean, you hunted it an evening and are coming back the next morning kind of thing.

Come on folks... the beauty of public hunting ground, and thank God we have it, is that any of us, regardless of your means or lack thereof, can go out and have a place to hunt... AND... we all have the same right to it.  

I, the same as some others, feel that hanging a stand and leaving it there [on public ground] is tantamount to "claiming" a spot, whether the hanger means it that way or not. Some that have said they don't think they are claiming a spot when they leave a stand have also said they don't think it should stop somebody from hunting the same spot (not in their stand) if they're not there. Well, the fact is it does. Some of us are just too polite. We find a stand up in a place where we were planning to hunt and we either don't want to seem rude in case someone shows up, or we don't want to have our sit ruined when the owner comes walking in right in the middle of prime time. Either way, it forces us to go somewhere else. Another thing to think about for those that think leaving a stand doesn't claim a spot, is the idea that maybe that tree [where your stand is] is the best, or only, stand site to take advantage of that particular spot. Again, having the effect of denying someone access to a spot that they have as much right to hunt as you do.

On public ground, "first-come first-served" should only count for when you are actually there. None of us can claim we "found a spot" first, [on public ground] anyway. The only thing you can claim is you hung a stand first. And besides that, going back to the beauty of public ground, whether you like it or not, the guy that just likes getting out every once in awhile, and bumbles into some spot has as much right to hunt it as the guy who found it by meticulously scouting six months out of the year.

[GingivitisKahn]

Originally posted by Arwin:
Three Arrows I'm with ya!
 First come first serve: I did some scouting and found the right spot before anyone else. Does my body actually have to be there for it to count or does my personal property vouch for me?
 I would love to know the person who can take mature deer every season when they have to hang a stand in the dark every time they hunt.....
 Leaving my stand up isn't rude, I found a good spot, I should get to hunt it till I'm done. I got there first.
 Whats rude is looking up at someone's stand and thinking, "Hmm this must be a good spot, I think I'll hunt it."  Wheres the skill in that??!!!
 If the "other guy" had gotten off his butt and done his homework, he'd have a good spot too. And to cry about the fact that I have a good spot and don't deserve to keep my stand there is immature and comes down to envy.
 Get out there and take pride in finding your own honey hole rather than scavenge on someone else hard work.

Who says you got there first?  How do you know some other tradgang member hasn't been scouting that area all season?  What makes that piece of public land yours - your stand?!  Please.

So just leaving your junk there means it is yours - come on.

For one thing - we don't all choose to hunt from treestands - what personal property should we leave behind to claim this spot when we scout it?  For another thing - many here on this thread that do choose to yse treestands bring them in and out when they use them.  In neither case is that does that make us lazy or does it indicate that we have scavenged your 'honey hole'.

[Mr.Magoo]

Just look at "Arwin's" post above ...  He found the spot, it's his, he's going to hunt it till he's done.  Find your own spot.  Of course, the proof he found it first is because he hung his stand there.

---------------------------------
"Leaving my stand up isn't rude, I found a good spot, I should get to hunt it till I'm done. I got there first.

... And to cry about the fact that I have a good spot and don't deserve to keep my stand there is immature and comes down to envy.

Get out there and take pride in finding your own honey hole rather than scavenge on someone else hard work."
----------------------------------

Of course, if you disagree with him, you're an envious, immature, cry-baby.  Wow.

[GingivitisKahn]

Originally posted by Deadsmple:
 

Originally posted by GingivitisKahn:
   

Originally posted by Deadsmple:
You'll never get it I tried in vain in last years thread.              [/b]

No need to be snippy.  I get it - I just disagree with you.  On the other hand, you also hunt with trad gear so as far as I know - I agree with you on twice as many things as I disagree on. [/b]

hehehe I was in total agreement with you. Not getting snippy at all, I was just saying that I tried in last years thread to get them to admit that hanging a stand for weeks at a time on public land is rude. Like you, I couldn't get anyone to budge.         [/QB]

Lol whoopsie - my mistake.  Sorry about that!

I'll have to admit I enjoy threads like this one.  If this is really the biggest, most polarizing issue that traditional bowhunters have - I'd say we're a remarkably cohesive group of folks.

Sorry I misunderstood you!

As an aside - I've seen a number of posts in this thread by the pro-stand-leaver side of the discussion that talk about the evils of stealing, damaging or occupying another person's stand.  For the record, I don't think I've seen a single post in this thread (from either side) that advocates stealing, damaging or occupying another person's stand.

I think we can all agree that is wrong - the discussion is about whether it's ok or not to leave a stand hanging when you aren't in it.

[buckeye_hunter]

Calm down now fellas...... This arguement isn't going anywhere.

I have prepped more that one tree only to find someone there on opening morning. The guy even went so far as to tell me he looked for prepped areas so he didn't have to do the work. AND HE WAS TALKING ABOUT A SPOT I PREPPED FOR THE OPENER!  I complained on here about it and quickly learned my lesson.

Even if the guy was too lazy to do his own work, the tree was still public property. I found another place a half mile away with my climber on my back!

I then continued to pack my stand in that full mile every time I hunted in there. I could have decided that it was easier to leave it, but I wanted to leave a pristine woods for the next guy to hunt. And yes I did sweat my A$%^ off getting into that stand. I still saw deer.

Let this one die guys.

Everyone has a different idea of how things should be. I ground hunt now anyway, just don't like heights or the hassle of a stand. Now I'm a free roamer.  

I still hate to see the stands hanging in the woods on my way past them to get to unhunted spots. It just takes away from the experience a little.

To each his own for better or worse. Honestly, worse in my opinion(just my opinion).

Jim,
A guy who doesn't see anything wrong with what he is doing inside of the legal hunting rules isn't going to admit you are right OR he is wrong. Not going to happen my friend.

Let it go, as much as I agree with you.

Thanks for letting me ramble on,
-Charlie

[Three Arrows]

Charlie, if you liked to hunt from treestands, would your opinion still be the same?  Do treestand hunters look upon groundhunters with the same disdain?  Is is okay to wander around the woods stillhunting?  Is setting up groundblinds detrimental to your hunting aesthetics?  If you were hunting somewhere and a guy goes in within earshot of you to set up his stand would you happy?

[GingivitisKahn]

Originally posted by buckeye_hunter:
Thanks for letting me ramble on,
-Charlie

Rambler!  :-D

You're right - no one here is likely to change anyone's opinion but as long as the debate doesn't devolve into personal attacks and stuff it still seems healthy.  Heh - as I mentioned above, if this is the biggest difference of opinions amongst the good folks at Tradgang, we're in pretty good shape.

More importantly - Time until Saturday, September 26, 2009 at 6:26:00 AM (Columbus time)
9 days, 8 hours, 46  minutes and 7  seconds

Season opener - yowza!

[Arwin]

Ok I admit I felt a little attacked by Mr. Kahn and Magoo, but I'm a big boy and can take some debate.    
 Have either of you ever hunted public land in Michigan? Judging by that stats from your states we have way more pressure than you do. 300,000+ bowhunters is pretty substantial. You ever have more people walk past your stand than deer? You get to a point when you long just to be alone for a few hunts without it geting disrupted by another human.
 I never claimed to own the land, simply that it takes a tremendous amount of work to harvest deer in my neck of the woods and I think a courtious hunter would find another spot. Moral ethics vary person to person and because it is public land, I can only get frustrated if I feel infringed upon. With the amount of public land we are blessed to have, there is no reason for hunting someones elses stand.  
 My opinion is that there is greater satisfaction in finding my own spot rather than hunting under someones elses treestand, or in it for that matter.
 Yes it does sound like whining to me if other hunters complain that it's not fair my stand is there, but I'm not going to hate you for disagreeing with me.
 To me, saying another hunter should take down their stand so others can use that spot is like honking and screraming at the person in front of you for driving too slow.