Nock point question

[Hogdgz]

I did another thread on here about 5575 vs. mfx340 b/c arrows always seem to show weak spine. Well I have been doing some more reading on here about to low of a nock point can make you show weak. I do get a liitle bit of wear on the outside edge of my shelf on my SAX Black Widow.

My question is my nock point is set at 5/8 now and if I go any lower I get alot of tail kick so I settled at 5/8. Could I go higher like 3/4 or even more or is that kinda crazy and un heard of. I do notice when I shoot other peoples bows that the arrow flys like crap for me and usually these people shoot lower nock points than I usually do, so I guess it is my form.

[xtrema312]

I had the same problem.  I Just have to run a higher nock point on most bows than what others do.  It took a while to figure it all out.  I do have one bow now that runs a hair under 5/8", but my other bow runs about 3/4".  The over stiff shaft plays into it also.  I now go way high on the nock and weak on the shaft to work it out so I don’t get to low or too stiff before I find the correct tune.  I think the problem has been my trying to get a bare shaft to fly close to flat.  With the higher FOC carbon set-up I don’t think they will fly flat shooting split finger.  I don’t worry about it now.  I just get impact point and go to broad heads.  Everything works out fine.  Another problem is I have gotten used bows and just tried to tune with the nock point on the bow.  It worked for the previous owner, but not for me.  Everyone is different.   I have made some form changes.  I got a little lower nock point height, but not as low as I think is average.

[Hogdgz]

Yhanks, I guess I am like you. I have noticed when I shoot other peoples bows the arrow flies eratic, but then usually if I put the arrow on top of there nock point it flies better.

[James Wrenn]

A higher nocking point lets you get away with a stiff arrow at times.Some shoot high nocking points and like them fine.I just can't stand an arrow laying on the shelf at such an angle myself.I have one bow that will just not shoot a clean arrow of no kind without a 3/4" high nocking point.I don't shoot that bow.  :D

[newtradgreenwood]

Hogdoz,

I am new to trad & shooting off the shelf.  Like you I had nock height concerns and outside shelf wear.  My nock height is now 3/4" (that is the center of the arrow nock is 3/4" above the shelf, the bottom of the nock is 13/16" above shelf).  I shoot a Fedora 560 recurve that is 60" long.  Raising the nock got rid of the shelf wear.  As a old compound shooter the nock seemed high to me, but that is where my bow shoots good.  My arrows are also spined a little higher than some others suggest, but I bare shaft tuned all summer & i used what got the bare & feathered shafts to hit the same place & what to my eye seemed to be flying straight.  Compound shooting with adjustable rests & a release was a science.  Trad is science and alot of "art".  Use what works for you & relax.

[newtradgreenwood]

clarification - the bottom of the nock on the string (not the arrow) is 13/16" above shelf.

[mark land]

Hey Chase, I shoot a 3/4in nock height on my SAIII, the 1 I had at the hog hunt, but shoot 5/8 on my SAII, just a difference in tiller on those bows, but all my bows are nocked high and I have perfect arrow flight.  In fact I normally tune my bows to shoot just slightly nock high and a little weak with the bare shaft and tends to shoot better with a fletched arrow that way.  I have a Hoyt Dorado and Game Master and both of those bows are close to 7/8in nock high to shoot correctly.  No problem, do what the bow and shaft are telling you to do.  Mark

[Shleprock]

I will give this more attention in about 8 hrs.

[Shleprock]

[Hogdgz]

Thanks guys this is some real good information, when I measure my nock point, I actually measure to the bottom of the brass nock on the string. I guess when I get some extra time I am goona bump it up some more and see how that works.

[30coupe]

One of the differences when you shoot someone else's bow could be that they have a longer draw than you do. Arrows that fly fine for them, may be stiff for you. By raising the nock point, you can shoot the stiffer arrow without erratic flight.

I seem to recall Rod Jenkins stating in Masters of the Bare Bow I that he used a 3/4" high nock point to avoid any chance of bow interference. He also shoots three under which tends to call for a higher nock point on a bow tillered for split especially. If it's good enough for Rod, who are we to say 3/4" is too high?

[Don Stokes]

I recommend setting your nocking point by bare-shafting at close range, setting it just a fudge high, and leaving it there. Spine adjustments should be made with the arrow, not with the nocking point. Too many variables.

[SL]

I always set mine where it shoots a good arrow -then measure and wright it down. Do like Mark said. The bow is telling you what to do.
SL

[SL]

oh, If you have any doubts shoot some broadheads. That will tell you alot about your nock point as well as spine.
SL

[Hogdgz]

Actually I shoot a broadhead evertime I shoot and they group right there with my fieldpoints.

Thanks guys for all the help.

[xtrema312]

I had the same thing.  My bow was shooting great with broad heads.  If you get it just right and you shoot consistent you can get away with it, but the bow was not tuned correctly.  As soon as I changed out the warn shelf material I had a problem.  Now it is right.  I also don’t get those odd occasional flyers now.

[Hogdgz]

It seems that I get alot of the odd flyers, I did some more bareshafting today and got some different results than usual. Arrows did not show as weak as they usually are but I had my bow quiver on there. Think I am getting closer and may not need the stiffer shafts.

Weird thing is I had some old fletched 2018's and shot it some but it was making a loud ping noise but was flying straight, and I am pretty shure it was not bouncing off the shelf, what could cause this.

[xtrema312]

The ping could be from hitting the riser or the shelf.  

I put a strip of white electrical tape on my shelf running the length of the shelf.  I let the edge hang off the side of the shelf straight out.  I can start to see the rub patterns fairly quick.  If an arrow runs hard off the shelf edge I will see the marks.  It will also tack down the tape.  This gives me a much faster read then waiting to see if the shelf wears, or trying to read bare shaft only.  What I have found is the bare shaft for some reason is typically the one to rub or tack down the tape.  You hear a lot that the feathers don’t really effect arrow flight for a distance, but I find that not to be true, for me anyway.

[Hogdgz]

Thanks extrema 312, I havent thought about the white tape, I will have to try that.

[xtrema312]

Here is a sample.  I had one stuck to something so I put it back on.  This is the tape before the one that showed I had it all tuned up correct.  When tuned the most part of the scuffing was by the riser with just light uniform scuffing over the tape face and not tacking down or hard wear at the riser edge.  In the first pic it is hard to see, but in person you can easily read the wear marks from the arrow at the rest and as it slides across the tape.  I keep the edge up sticking out so an arrow over the shelf edge will move the tape down.  In the second pic you can see the tape tacked down to the riser as if a hard contact was made.  You can see the marks left from the arrow rubbing on the edge of the shelf.  In fact you can see it is kind of green from the writing on my Beman hunter shafts.  Checking after every shot I could see the arrow reaction and the tape position or marks.  I probably shot 100 arrows on this tape to watch what was going on over time.  This is how I was able to see the pattern of the bare shaft causing most of the over the edge issues.

You can also do this on the belly and edge of the riser to see if a stiff shaft is rubbing a little on the edge of the riser.  You will also note some buildup of stuff in the Velcro.  I find when tuned right this will be a little forward due to the arrow flexing away from the riser as the shaft moves out and away.  I find anything from this to more even to be a good tune for me.  If I see the reverse I am too stiff.