Trouble Bare Shafting

[razorback]

OK. Started bare shafting my 2315's to my 55# Bear grizzly today. They are 30 1/2" Nock to back of point and have 125 gr field tips. Everything being equal the bare shafts are hitting in a nice group in the center of the target while the fletched arrows are scattering all overthe place. Would have trouble covering a 9" plate. What is going on. Any help will be appreciated

[joebuck]

Your fletching is hitting either your side plate and/or shelf in a direct way causing the arrow to kick outside it's normal path.........build your shelf up ( raise your arrow) and/or start twisting your nocks to minimize fletching contact on the side window or shelf....or reduce the size of your fletching.......see if this helps

[maineac]

I found a slight improvement shooting cock feather in try that, but also check the clearance as joebuck suggested.  If the bare shafts are grouping it must be a fletching piece.

[Tom Leemans]

Those Grizzly's have a straight shelf, don't they? Maybe it's just the fletching contacting it weird. 2315's aren't what I would think of when shooting 55#, but you said they bare shaft o.k. Are they going straight in? If they fly like darts, your fletching shouldn't affect it so negatively.  Most folks I know would build up the shelf under whatever material they are using for the actual rest. Check out the info O.L. Adcock has on his site regarding tuning. It's one of the best pieces of info out there.
  http://bowmaker.net/index2.htm

[razorback]

Tom. i am using OL's guide and I have the shelf built up. i put a piece of Para cord under the velcro, directly over the deepest part of the handle. The nock point is at 3/8". Most of the deviation is up and down in a straight line. The fletched arrows are also noisier. They are fletched with the traditional cock feather 2 hen feather configuration, so i will try playing with the nock point and the cock feather orientation.
2315's are on the chart with easton for their shaft selector. What other shafts would you think are more appropriate. I have some 2114's that seem to shoot well but stumping has given most of them a little bend in the tip so no good for tuning purposes.

[Don Stokes]

razorback, make sure your brace height is high enough, too. If cock feather in helps, raising the brace some might straighten it out.

[Landshark160]

Raise your nocking point a hair.  I've had that problem before.

[Ringneck]

I'm with Chris. Move the nocking point up and see if it stops. Sounds like it might be your problem since the groups are stringing up and down.

[hvyhitter]

2315s sound really stiff for your setup, the 2114s sound more like it,esp. if your arrow flight while stumping seemed good. Depending on your actual draw length, usually something in the 2018 to 2117 range works best for a 55# recurve.

[Killdeer]

I think most folks are missing that the arrows are cut to 30.5", and we do not know what the actual draw length is.

The up and down should indicate a nock-point problem, but you would think that a bare shaft would show that better than a fletched one. I think the problem is in the fletching contacting shelf and/or strike plate on release. How high are the fletches? Can you turn the nocks so that the hen feather rides in the angle between shelf and sight window? The first three responses to this thread are, I think, valid.

Killdeer

[razorback]

Sorry guys and gals, draw length is 29 1/2". I raised the nock point and turned the cock feather in and am getting better results though the bare shafts were not as consistent. Arms started getting tired so have taken a break, was pretty sure form was waivering giving inconsistent results. Nock is now at 7/16th" and the bottom hen feathers on several of my arrows are showing distinct wear from the shelf.

[Gottabow]

When I bare shaft I will try to have a knock high with the bare shaft and the bare shaft should show a little weak..when they are fletched they should strighten out..I do think it would be a knocking point thing though.

[Danny Rowan]

Put a feather rest on and raise your nock to 9/16, bet it will be much better.

Danny

[vtmtnman]

I would have started at 1/2" for the nock point.I start there any time trying to tune a bow.I have that on my grizzly now and it gives me great arrow flight with my 2213's.You may need to go to 5/8" for those logs.

[Mike Brockner]

I shoot the same arrows with a 50# recurve, 29.5" draw with 225 grains up front.  Nock point almost 3/4 above.  
Move you nock point up and it should help with bear shaft flight.  I was getting lower hen feather wear as well and raising the nock helped.

Work on getting your bare shaft and fletched shafts grouping togeather.  Once you can do this you have the correct spined shafts for YOUR setup.  

Change point weight and build out your shelf to change arrow spine.  Check out O.L's website, he is spot on about tuning.

Hope this helps.

Mike

[joebuck]

Lets back up.....I basically told you in my first post why your fletched arrows were flying eractic.....crashing is the word i like,into your side plate and/or shelf.....i gave you options to minimize that crash............lets skin this cat another way...Let dwell into WHY is the fletching crashing?....your ARROW paradox is out of whack. A proper tuned arrow will bend in when released and bend out ( around the riser window) by the time it passes the riser window....there are several great slo mo's of this scattered on you tube etc........so i bet if you put a 175grain or 200 grain field point on end of that arrow...your paradox will get in whack.......or decrease your side plate......but definitely raise your shelf.....XX78 with tunable nocks can really aid an archer in micro tuning

[razorback]

Joe. I raised the nock and turned, increased brace and turned the fletching so the cock feather ws in. Seemed to help witht the consistency of the fletched arrows. They are grouping very nicely,even with broadheads. I now have to wait for te heavier field tips to arrive to start playing with weight.. I am getting stiff spine showing, no surprise, so will work on that now.
Thanks so much for all the input.

[joebuck]

Thats great Razor!...nothing irritates me more than my arrows flopping around...when i shot 2315's ..i shot my cock feather a smidgion up probably at 9:30.......another tip here is coat your shelf and rest with bright lipstick...shoot 1 and the same arrow multiple times and see which feathers and where on the feather is hitting the shelf and window....Do some CSI work from there.....sounds like you have a handle on this..good luck

[Old York]

Razorback, those 2315's have a static spine just under 93 pounds. IMO, that's too stiff, even with the longer 30.5" shaft. You might have good luck using Stu Miller's Dynamic Spine Calculator


 http://www.heilakka.com/stumiller

[razorback]

Old York. Thanks for that input. I have seen this calculator before but forgot all about it. Looks like 2117's at 30.5" with 150gr heads will be just about perfect.
Not having any of those or the budget for a new set of arrows I will have to make do for now. I will still tweak it some and practice a bunch to get good consistent groups. I can reduce the shelf width and I have some 175gr heads. This sems to bring it closer.