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Author Topic: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?  (Read 1588 times)

Offline JC

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"Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« on: April 05, 2007, 01:01:00 PM »
Stupid question from someone who has only done very little turkey hunting: Why is it that it's considered "wrong" to kill hens? I mean, we kill does right? Why not hens?

And another question, here in GA the regs specify only "gobblers" are legal. What would you consider a "gobbler"? And then, why not "jakes" too?

It doesn't seem to make sense as a management practice in areas with good turkey pops. In my area we have quite a few turkeys, actually lots of turkeys...but the mature gobblers get hit pretty hard by the end of the season.

Curious to hear your views, both those from my region and others....
"Being there was good enough..." Charlie Lamb reflecting on a hunt
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Offline vermonster13

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2007, 01:07:00 PM »
Here Bearded birds are legal in the spring, hens and bearded in the fall. You kill the hens in the spring and you kill their clutches also which can out a damper on those good populations. But not everyone will be able to tell a bearded hen from a jake/tom so bearded is the guide.
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Offline aromakr

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2007, 01:07:00 PM »
JC:
Just my opinion, but during the spring season most hens are being bred or sitting on clutches. they are the future of the population. Alot of states allow hunting them in the fall when the young are old enough to survive on their own. And Jakes are for the most part easier to call than a mature tom, making them easier to kill.
Bob
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Offline MJB

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2007, 01:07:00 PM »
Here in PA in our Fall season we can take a gobbler, hen or jake. To me any turkey is a trophy . Young gobblers are called jakes usually sporting a 2-3in beard.
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Offline 4runr

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2007, 01:11:00 PM »
JC, I think it's like it was in Ohio 25-30 years ago with deer. It was almost considered sacreligeous(sp) to kill a doe. Then, when the population of deer exploded, and the management practices were shown to work, then hunters changed their veiws on taking does. I think when the population of Turkey start to stablize and stay up, they'll loosen the regs a little bit. We, just in the past 10 years, have started to see Turkey more commonly here in the northern part of our state. It'll be interesting to hear other views on this.
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Offline BMOELLER

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2007, 01:13:00 PM »
I'm not against killing hens except in the spring when they're trying have to youngins. However, if the hen has a beard I'm gonna take it. Which is legal in Mo.  Here in Mo. bird has to have a visible beard.
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Offline hunt it

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2007, 01:23:00 PM »
JC,

Up here we cannot take hens unless bearded. We are allowed two birds per year, must have beards. So, jakes are fair game. In my opinion, I like to take a mature bird first then the second bird a jake is the plan. Most guys that are die hard turkey hunters here, kill two birds. Do any of us need two big Gobblers, no! I like to leave a few gobblers, for the next guy that dosn't have one and they get bigger by next year. We have so few hunters that there are lots of birds that I see that are 4 to 7 years old. I shot a banded bird that was 7 1/2 yrs old few years back. A bearded hen I would not shoot, unless you are going to mount it why bother?
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Offline JC

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2007, 01:27:00 PM »
Yes, I certainly understand the "clutches" or tending young. But, again using here at home as a reference, you can kill a doe early in bow season that's still nursing a fawn. Not my cup of tea, but from a purely game management practice it's legal. We hunt deer while they are being bred and even pregnant. Curious why the turkey is looked at differently, at least here in GA. Could it be that turkey don't cause the "damage" deer do, and therefore the game laws are adjusted accordingly   :rolleyes:  (at least thats the conversation I had with someone yesterday that spurred this post).

As far as a fall season...aromakr made my point for me: why no fall seasons in many areas?

Kenny, I think that's certainly some of it here. One of my points with this question is to hear how many see it as "wrong culturally" to kill a hen...just because it's a hen.
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Offline T.W.

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2007, 01:30:00 PM »
In Georgia you can kill Jakes, can't kill hens, ever even if they sport a beard. No fall season. It can make for some tough huntin, but i believe it is best. I personally dont shoot jakes, just alot more fun to kill em as 2 year olds, but lots do "if he's gonna gobble like a 2 year old, strutt like a 2 year old, then he can die like a two year old" as the saying goes.

As far as hens, i dont know any state that allows killin em in the spring, it's the future, and with the high nest predation, (fire ants, possums, skunks, coons, yotes etc.) and probally more important rain and cool weather, the reproduction can vary dramatically from year to year. We need all the nesting birds you can get. I dont have numbers to support this but does probally have a much higher percentage of reproductive success. Plus the idea of shooting does was first a herd management tool to decrease the herd, now it's also used to increase the quality here in ga of the Herd (bigger bucks). With turkeys you generally dont have the same management goals, they generally are not causing millions of dollars in damage in the form of vehicle collisions and farm/crop damage, nor are they coming up in urban settings and eating mammas flowers. There may be some hassles with them but not near the problem that whitetails and humans have.

An arguement in favor of fall kills is a recent study that suggest turkeys reproduce at high levels until the region reaches capacity, with turkeys migrating to fill gaps, a higher kill, means the level maintains at under capacity, fooling the turkeys into higher reproduction rates, wich equals higher numbers of polts and therefor huntable turkeys in following years. On the other hand once capacity is reached the reproduction rates decrease and therefore the regions population experiences a slight decrease until it final levels off, (which they use to explain the recent reduction in ga turkey pop). So the idea is to keep the flock at just below capacity by means of spring and fall hunting kills, this fools the turkey into higher reproduction and has a flock above capacity for the hunting seasons. This study has not been accepted across the board yet, but will be interesting how it turns out.

Jakes actually in my experience are harder to kill than a 2 year old, but when they do come they often come in tandem, and dont really put on the show the older boys do. You can shoot 3 a season in ga and all in one shot if you want, which is often possible especially if your toting a shotgun, they often will jump on downed birds even after a blast from a gun. A jake with a stick and string is for sure an accomplishment. I just like to see em as 2 year olds put on a show.

Offline vermonster13

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2007, 01:31:00 PM »
I think much of it is holdover from times when building populations was the goal and there has been no drive to change it in those places. We have a very robust turkey population here. We are allowed two bearded birds in the spring and one either sex in the fall. Flocks of 100 are quite common.
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Offline JC

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2007, 01:39:00 PM »
TW, you hit it on the head as far as I'm concerned. 1)turkeys don't cause as much damage and that DOES play a part in our game regs. 2)many places in GA have reached carrying capacity according to some biologist estimates so "flock growth" may not necessarily be the best practice for more birds. 3)a fall hunt would be in order for any place with healthy pops. I actually saw more turkey than deer from my stands this year and we have a TON of deer.

TW, are you sure you can kill "jakes"...the regs say "gobbler" but don't define what that is...another grey area in GA's game regs.
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Offline T.W.

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2007, 01:47:00 PM »
Yes, I'm positive about the jakes, I hunt with some dnr guys some and have seen them take jakes before, not that that means anything. Also have been on some quota hunts up at dukes creek (which if you have a chance put in for) and seen jakes checked.

It is the same as a spike being a buck, a jake is a gobbler, just another word to clarify just what kind of gobbler, a juvinile, Would be the same as saying i shot a 2 year old (8"+ inch beard, 1" or less spurs), 3 year old(8"+ beard, 1"+ spurs), or in this case a jake (not full fan, short beard, stubs for spurs).

Gobbler simply denotes Male turkey, Jake is just a clarification. Just like a Jenny is a Hen, only a juvinile.

Offline Ray Hammond

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2007, 01:57:00 PM »
yep...and if you have a fall season you have ever jackleg in the woods with a rifle shooting hens from 300 yards.

Opportunistic slaughter, in my opinion. Many worked too hard to have the turkey wiped off the face of the earth in GA by folks not out there TO hunt turkey.
“Courageous, untroubled, mocking and violent-that is what Wisdom wants us to be. Wisdom is a woman, and loves only a warrior.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline JC

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2007, 01:59:00 PM »
That makes perfect sense...I just hate how our regs can be "interpreted" instead of being clear.

So is the age measurement you state an accurate description or anecdotal experience? Meaning, if you shoot a 10" beard and 1 1/4 are you SURE it's not a 2 year old? Not questioning you...I told ya, I don't know much about turkeys. I guess from what you write it's not like ungulates where you can't tell the age of the deer by the size of the horn.
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Offline JC

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2007, 02:00:00 PM »
Ray, why would that be? Why not just during bow season?
"Being there was good enough..." Charlie Lamb reflecting on a hunt
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Offline vermonster13

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2007, 02:01:00 PM »
You guys can hunt turkey with a rifle?
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Offline JC

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2007, 02:03:00 PM »
Shotguns, bows, and ANY muzzleloader (even scopes).
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Offline vermonster13

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2007, 02:04:00 PM »
Bow/shotgun only up here. Wouldn't take very long to fill tags if you could use a rifle/muzzleloader if so inclined.
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Offline JC

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2007, 02:09:00 PM »
I'm not a big fan of the muzzle loading allowance...a modern scoped muzzle loader is an easy 200 yard weapon. In the woods with camoed hunters  :scared:  ....surprised no one has been killed here, at least as far as I know.
"Being there was good enough..." Charlie Lamb reflecting on a hunt
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Offline vermonster13

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Re: "Wrong" to kill hens or jakes?
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2007, 02:11:00 PM »
West Virginia allows rifles for their turkey seasons. Not a big fan of allowing them for turkeys myself.
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