having a hard time here folks

[swampdrummer]

What a frustrating time! I went back to traditional this year. Having not hunted in close to 20 years. Thought I'd pick up a wheelie and go to it but when I started looking at compounds I was dumbfounded. Way to complicated. I grew up shooting recurves. Knew that was simple enough so thats where I ended up.Picked up a samcik deerslayer and shortly after that a shrew on the classifieds here.
 That was this past Feb. I practiced all summer long. every day. By june or so I thought I was good enough to start chasing pigs on my property.First week out I was trying to spot and stalk and that didn't work out to well so I sat. First night sitting I get a shot at a little pig. I hit the pig. Way far back and high. Got lucky, Picked up the main artery under the spine and that pig dropped in less than 40 yards.I'm thinking, not a good hit but I'll take it...first trad kill under my belt and I'll get better.
A month goes by with me still practicing every night. I have a little room in the freezer so I go back out chasing pigs. Sit in the same oak hammock and miss one cleanly at about 15 yards. Hit another one way high thru the neck at the same distance. No blood no recovery. the next weekend I go back to the same spot and drop another hog in his tracks at 10 yards.

Another month goes by and I again have a little room in the freezer. Time to go chase pigs again. 3 weeks till deer season and this will be a good tune up. Find the pigs, Get a shot. Stick a little sow at about 15 yards. Way far back but it catches enough of the spine that she only makes it 20 or 25 yards before her back legs go out on her. I follow immediately and a finishing shot at 5 yards ends that one.
Archery season starts and I'm hard at it, hunting most every day and as many hours as I can fit into my schedule. 3rd day of season I have 3 does come by. Miss two of them cleanly. As the weeks progress I manage to miss another 3 times in the same area. All under 15 yards.

 Week 3 of archery I have a doe come in,I draw and release, My shot is way high and left. She somehow manages to put her neck in the way of the arrow and it catches her about 6 inches behind the ear and comes out under her jaw. Sinking feeling watching her run off with an arrow flopping around in her neck. I followed up after an hour as there was LOTS of blood and I did recover her after a 300 yard track thru a nasty wet swamp.
Tonight I am out and the critters are moving. Busted by a big doe 15 minutes after I sit down. Shortly after that I see a BIG hog standing in the palmettos, way to far for a shot and he wanders off( I thought) 10 minutes later I have a 7 point walk in and immediately see me and run like the wind. Not 2 minutes later the same BIG hog comes in at 8 yards. I draw, I remember thinking, actually whispering to myself, You HAVE to make this shot good. PICK A SPOT! Had a couple of concerns here. Number one was to break this streak of marginal hits or misses and number two, This is a BIG pig! Full blown solid black boar with tusks like steak knives.Probably every bit of 300 pounds. Didn't want to screw this one up!
But I did.....
Shot high and left again and caught him way high in the neck.Way above the spine. One squeal and he runs off down into the swamp with the arrow sticking out of both sides of his neck. I looked for blood and or tracks down in this thick swamp for over an hour with nothing other than a million other hog tracks. I have very little doubt that this was a non lethal hit but it continues the streak.....

To sum up this long diatribe. I've been practicing most every night since Febuary.I've shot at 13 animals.Missed 7 cleanly. Killed 3 with marginal hits. Killed 1 where the arrow went were I wanted it to and had 2 woundings with no recovery.For me, 1 in 13 doesn't cut it.

I'm practicing the best I can to simulate real hunting conditions. Both out of a tree stand and on the ground. Standing and sitting, crouched and even laying down. I'm shooting fine on the targets out to 20 yards.  At 15 yards I'm shooting 4 arrow groups that are touching. At 20 I'm within a 4 inch circle. Yeah, I have flyers  at times but I'd say I am shooting where I look at least 95% of the time on targets.
 I've kept my shots under 15 yards or very close to that.I'm picking a spot but I think that under pressure and the shakes that my form is falling apart. I switched from the shrew bow to a barta bow thinking that the shrew, being light and small handled was "twitchy" and danged if I didn't do the same thing tonight with the barta bow!
I'm about a hairs breath away from doing one of two things. Number one calling it quits for the season and seeing how I do next year or, Buying a new compound..... Hate to go back to the compound. They have lost all thier charm with the complexity. But I'm having a hard time justifying my bad hits, even if I recover the animal.A lucky hit is just that, Lucky. Not much skill involved...
Sorry for the long post. Just had to vent....

[Ragnarok Forge]

Nice Vent.

Be persistent and work on focusing more.  If your firing high and left consistantly I am willing to bet your popping your head up to see where you hit right after your release.  This throws your arrow up and for you left.  Focus on a spot and keep your bow arm locked in place.  This should cure the problem.

Oh and if you did this with a compound it would do the exact same thing to you.  Don't give up the trad gear a compound won't fix a form problem.  Practice shooting and focusing on keeping your bow arm steady until you hear the arrow hit your target.  You will still be able to see the arrow hit the animal and should quite hitting em high and left.

[kennym]

Hey Brad,

It can get very frustrating at times.

1st ?  Do you have your arras tuned to the bow?

2nd ?  Have you shot your b-heads at longer distance? (I shoot all my b-head arras  50 yds,if anything flies funny,I go back to tuning or check head alignment!)That will tell you if there is a tuning prob.

If all is tuned and you shoot well at targets,the nerves may be getting you. Try drawing and letting down on the next critter a couple times. Then smoke em!

No criticizing here,just askin.

Good luck,Kenny

[swampdrummer]

Thanks folks
Clay
You are probably right. Looking back on it tonight I know I lifted my head, even after making a concius effort to get my face down on the string. I think I did it on my first deer miss as well.Probably on the doe I killed. Could have happened on the bad hits in the hogs.....My thinking on the compound. I've killed a bunch of critters with them, is the sights and peeps keep me in form.Just know I haven;t had the problems I'm having now.

Kenny,
yes, these arrows are tuned.Shooting 3 field points and two abowyers in the same spot out to 20 yards. Its no doubt nerves.I did and have  drawn more than once. Tonight was the first time I remember talking myself thru the shot sequence and I got the same result. A big pig with an arrow thru his neck.

[horatio1226]

Thanks for this post. I am a new hunter and hit a deer in the neck day before yesterday. I felt terrible as this was only my second shot at a deer.I hate to even have to admit it. I searched and searched but couldn't find it. There was zero blood on the ground that I could find at all. I even called my buddy who is a very experienced hunter. After reading this I realize that I probably lifted my head because I was looking to see where the deer was going to run to.  Its a tough thing to have happen. I've been practicing religously and was really confident in my shooting. I'm on my way back out right now and will be sure to keep my head down when I shoot next time. I am also going to practice drawing and letting down on the deer. I can practice all I want on a target, but its a lot different the the deer walks by. I don't have much practice in that scenario. Thanks for the help. All this is definitely making me a better hunter. Good luck!

[frassettor]

I missed 7 times before I finally connected. Funny, the more I missed the more laid back I got. I was so wound up tight after the first 2 misses that I just told myself to relax! I shot good on the range as well, and knew I had it in me.

What seemed to help me a little is when I first got to the stand I took out my small game head arrow and picked a leaf out and shot at it. It let me focus on my form when I was in the particular stand. My misses were a result of me trying to peek, or lifting my head.

My first deer I was off by 4-5 inches from where I wanted to hit it, but this time I was more relaxed and focused which allowed me to connect with her.

Shooting targets is great, but nothing gives you more experience then actually shooting at live animals. I shot alot in my compound days as well, it was so "impersonal", now that I'm shooting Traditional only I realize the only way Im going to harvest an animal is strictly based on my ability to focus, and concentrate.

Dont give up, It will get better. By your story it sure does sound to me that you had a successful season!. Meat in the freezer, and experience!

[JC]

Sadly this is not an uncommon problem among traditional bowhunters. I think Clay is right on it with the focus comment.

Shooting at fur is completely different than foam. Very few people can directly transition their excellent target marksmanship to similar results on live game. Yes, practical practice will improve your odds but the only real way, in my mind, to get better at killing more animals is to take more   controlled  shots at live game.

I believe the biggest difference between foam and fur is the subconscious switch from simply "hitting a spot on an object" to "killing this animal." The focus becomes killing an entire animal instead of hitting a tiny spot. I am convinced this is the #1 reason for any miss I've ever had. I started paying attention to exactly what I was thinking, not necessarily doing, when I missed. Inevitably, the focus of my goal in those instances was not the hit, but the kill. I think this dilutes your focus off of a precise hit.

Now, I simply forget completely about killing the animal, I am totally focused on just hitting THE spot (notice not A spot). I don't think about the end results of the shot, just simply "I'm going to put an arrow right THERE". That simple shift in mental semantics made all the difference in the world to me. I don't focus on killing an animal, I focus on putting the arrow on THE spot...the arrow takes care of the rest.

It may also take some self control to get back on track. The next time you have a shot, simply don't take it. Spend time within range of the animal getting comfortable. Get to the point where you can focus on hitting THE spot for as long as the animal is within range, decide not to kill the animal and make it practice just as important as your back yard.  Try this a couple of times and then, decide not to kill the animal...decide to simply hit THE spot. Let the arrow do it's job of killing, you do your job of delivering.

Hope it helps. Remember, you are not going through this alone. Countless numbers of us have gone through exactly what you are and come out the other side. You can beat it and when you do, the value of the rewards will often be more than your heart can hold.

[Pegen]

Unlike a compound, where the shot is subdivided in phases: draw, aim, wait, press trigger, everything happens at one time in a fluid motion in trad shooting, that's where nerves can get to you. maybe the Samick would be more forgiving to shoot at this time. If I were in your situation, I would put the Shrew on the back burner for a couple year, until you get your nerves down.

[Rob DiStefano]

jc is right on the money, and told very eloquently!

[Covey]

JC, very well said!! Jason

[swampdrummer]

Wow,JC, Thank you! That makes so much sense! I know I'm not there yet as there are all sorts of thoughts going thru my head at the time of the shot. I need to get it down to just one......Thanks everybody! and keep the suggestions coming!

[camocowboy]

JC, you are right on. Funny thing for me it's in reverse. I'm the world's worst target shooter, but more often than not I can close the deal on a good kill shot. I think it has to do with concentration. I get buck fever after the shot.

[wingnut]

The worst thought you can have on game is "don't miss".  Dang brain only hears "MISS!"

I agree totally with JC.  It's all about ultimate focus at the moment of truth.  We spend all the time pounding the targets and focusing on an arrow hole.  When the game animal gives us a shot, we say "behind the shoulder" or "kill the pig"  instead of that hair right there.  Everytime I remember that hair being my focus there were pictures shortly afterwards.

Mike

[Bill Carlsen]

Brad: Tell us more about your equipment. I had a similar problem shooting  left but because I had eye surgery and had to learn to shoot all over again. Even after it seemed like my eyes were ok i found that if I used a heavier head the left shooting problem went away in hunting situations even though on the target range a point weight of 50 grains less worked just fine.

Jay Kidwell wrote a book, INSTINCTIVE ARCHERY INSIGHTS, in which he talks about the mechanics of shooting barebow. He spends a lot of time writing about the right/left thing. Now, according to him and assuming your arrows and bow are properly matched and tuned, he recommends shooting at vertical targets, like saplings or putting vetrical stripping on your target. don't pay any attention to where you hit the line (high or low) just work on making every shot in line  Ther is more to his book than that but he basically says that a bowhunter has to worry about only two things, vertical alignment and the trajectory of the arrow. His formula for the vertical part should be the first aspect of shooting accurately (using proper form, of course) and that that  can become an "automatic" function of each and every shot so that it becomes ingrained  so you only have to worry about elevation. The book is in paper back and is not expensive. Sounds like it is what would be really helpful to you. Good luck with the shooting thing. Sounds like you have plenty of animals to hunt.

[buckeye_hunter]

I was shooting 3d decently with field points and thought I was good to go. Then I put broadheads on my arrows and went from decent to pretty bad. The arrows were not tuned as well as I thought and I had to up the point weight considerably. It did help. Make sure the arrows are tuned for broadheads and maybe try practicing on 3d targets.

Just some thoughts,
-Charlie

[swampdrummer]

Bill,
I just switched over from the shrew bow and I'm currently shooting a Barta Bow. 50# @ 28" with easton 2216's cut at 30.5" with 215 grains up front in an abowyer javalina lite with a 75 grain adapter. The arrows bareshafted out fine to 20 yards. I've shot a mix of field points and broadheads and they are hitting in the same spot on the target.
With the shrew at 53#@28" I was shooting 2117's cut to 30" with only 125 grain woodsmans up front. They were flying good as well. Bareshafted out fine to 20 yards. Broadheads and field points in the same spot on the target.

I switched to the barta bow thinking that the shrew was a bit "twitchy" and the long bow would be a bit more forgiving of form errors but last nights performance tells me otherwise.I was also wanting to get some more weight flying as I wasn't getting pass thru's on these little pigs.

I will definately pick up the book you recomended.
Thanks again folks. This place is amazing!

[frassettor]

Originally posted by JC:
Sadly this is not an uncommon problem among traditional bowhunters. I think Clay is right on it with the focus comment.

Shooting at fur is completely different than foam. Very few people can directly transition their excellent target marksmanship to similar results on live game. Yes, practical practice will improve your odds but the only real way, in my mind, to get better at killing more animals is to take more   controlled  shots at live game.

I believe the biggest difference between foam and fur is the subconscious switch from simply "hitting a spot on an object" to "killing this animal." The focus becomes killing an entire animal instead of hitting a tiny spot. I am convinced this is the #1 reason for any miss I've ever had. I started paying attention to exactly what I was thinking, not necessarily doing, when I missed. Inevitably, the focus of my goal in those instances was not the hit, but the kill. I think this dilutes your focus off of a precise hit.

Now, I simply forget completely about killing the animal, I am totally focused on just hitting THE spot (notice not A spot). I don't think about the end results of the shot, just simply "I'm going to put an arrow right THERE". That simple shift in mental semantics made all the difference in the world to me. I don't focus on killing an animal, I focus on putting the arrow on THE spot...the arrow takes care of the rest.

It may also take some self control to get back on track. The next time you have a shot, simply don't take it. Spend time within range of the animal getting comfortable. Get to the point where you can focus on hitting THE spot for as long as the animal is within range, decide not to kill the animal and make it practice just as important as your back yard.  Try this a couple of times and then, decide not to kill the animal...decide to simply hit THE spot. Let the arrow do it's job of killing, you do your job of delivering.

Hope it helps. Remember, you are not going through this alone. Countless numbers of us have gone through exactly what you are and come out the other side. You can beat it and when you do, the value of the rewards will often be more than your heart can hold.

Damm...Im gonna try that next time too! Great thinking JC!!! And might I add VERY WELL PUT!!  

[horatio1226]

This thread has been most helpful! I am very grateful for the insight and will hopefully get a chance to try it this afternoon.
Brian

[4runr]

This is what is so awesome about this site. JC, your points are exactly what I needed.

I missed four shots at deer this year, so far. I would go through my usual preshot routine as well as telling myself to bend at the waist, from a stand. I shot over the back all four times. The fifth chance I had, within seconds after the fourth miss, I was mad and told myself to ONLY PICK THE SPOT. My arrow went exactly where THE SPOT was, and 80 yards later I had my deer.

I realize I still need to have good form ingrained in my shooting and I need to bend at the waist when shooting from elevated positions, but these things need to be second nature. I don't need anything alse in my mind but The Spot in actual hunting situations

[bawana bowman]

Brad,

You've been given some very well stated advice to help remedy your unwanted Flyers!
I just want to add one thing.
When you reach full draw, as wingnut stated, pick a hair (not a spot). When you release; don't move your bow arm or your head until after you see the arrow hit its mark! You don't have to look up to see it, as long as your aligned right you will see it hit! Then you can move! Practice this with your targets and get it burned into your subconscious. I guarantee you will see a BIG difference on animals.    
Sounds to me like your having a great season as far as seeing game and getting shots.
I'm seeing game, but either to far off to consider a shot, or not legal for the property I'm hunting.    
If you continue having trouble, I'm only about 2-3 hours away. Would be more than happy to come over and help you out with a little on the job training!  
     

Hal