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Author Topic: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????  (Read 3705 times)

Offline Earl Jeff

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #100 on: November 27, 2009, 12:56:00 PM »
AH YOU GUY'S JUST DON'T KNOW HOW TO HUNT THESE MODERN WHITETAILS. YOU NEED TO GO TO ONE OF THOSE PGC DEER HUNTING CLASSES.  :D

Offline Tioga

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #101 on: November 27, 2009, 02:28:00 PM »
I have to admit....I must be losing my touch after 40 years in the deer woods chasing whitetails. Chasing deer that don't crap, don't leave tracks in neither the mud nor the snow has really got me scratching me noggin. I must need some kinda schoolin'.  :o  

  Thought I was on to something a few weeks back when I discovered an oak bench that actually had some good deer sign on it. But then the bears moved in, and that was the end of that.  :(
Alleghenny Mtn Bow 48@27
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Online Adirondack Bowman

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #102 on: November 27, 2009, 11:10:00 PM »
Al Gore says the poor quality of Pa. deer hunting is due to global warming.

Offline Earl Jeff

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #103 on: November 28, 2009, 02:37:00 PM »
He should know he invented the internet  :p

Offline danseitz

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #104 on: November 29, 2009, 10:43:00 AM »
“Our fall food survey suggests that almost all hard and soft mast species produced well this year. As a result, wildlife may be more widespread in forested areas,” he said.
“As always, pre-season scouting can improve a hunter’s chance for success this year.”
That means it’s likely that even less deer will be seen tomorrow by many hunters, particularly those who have passed on the pre-season scouting and out of habit will be in the same spot tomorrow morning where they’ve been on the first morning of the season for the past five, 10, 20 years.
Critics of the commission’s deer management program, which throughout the first decade of the 21st century has led to lower deer numbers across much of the state, likely won’t be open to any explanations like that.
Even the commission’s annual survey of the observations by field staff of food conditions and wildlife populations, intended in part as a starting point for hunters in search of prime hunting spots for their desired game species, now has its critics.
A report on that survey’s notes about Central Pennsylvania appeared on the Outdoors pages last Sunday.
It included this: “Western Cumberland County: Deer numbers are good. More deer have been sighted in Michaux State forest than last year, and the gypsy moth hasn’t done much damage there this year, so deer might be expected to stick around. The central part of the county is intensively farmed, but where there are woodlots or overgrown areas you’ll find deer.”
The comment about Michaux State Forest drew an angry e-mail that said in part, “The man who issued that report must be on crack. I've seen less deer, less (scat), less rubs and less scrapes in this area between Spruce Hollow in the south mountain to Big Flat then I've seen in years.”
In a common thread among those wanting changes in the commission’s deer management program, the e-mailer called for management at a smaller scale than the large, multi-county wildlife management units currently in place, the end of doe hunting for several years, maybe an end of even buck hunting for a year, and a return to a two-week buck season and a two-day doe season, similar to what had been the status quo for many years before the new deer management program was put into place.
Regardless of the ongoing criticisms, hundreds of thousands of hunters will take to Penn’s Woods before sunrise tomorrow.
“Deer season is the most important method that the Game Commission has been using for more than a century to manage Pennsylvania’s whitetails,” said commission Executive Director Carl Roe. “The efforts of hunters are far-reaching, and they help to keep deer populations in check and enable the agency to meet deer management goals that benefit almost everyone who resides, visits or travels through this state.”
The commission in its current deer management program has employed a formula that it claims “manages deer for a healthy and productive deer herd that provides recreational opportunities within acceptable ecological impacts and human conflicts.”
No matter how tough the cut of meat, you can always stick your fork in the gravy.

Offline danseitz

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #105 on: November 29, 2009, 10:48:00 AM »
Remember, with all the mast out there, boys, the deer will be scattered and you may not see them. Hahahahahahahahaha.
No matter how tough the cut of meat, you can always stick your fork in the gravy.

Offline Earl Jeff

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #106 on: November 29, 2009, 04:04:00 PM »
I'm sorry I started this thread I think I'll go and gouge my eyes out now.

Offline Red Beastmaster

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #107 on: November 29, 2009, 05:32:00 PM »
Tomorrow will be the one day per year that I carry a gun. I go first day each year to be with my Dad before he heads off to Florida for the winter. I do enjoy the hunting with family and friends. Last year first day one man in our party of six saw one deer in a whole day of hard hunting. On the plus side, with fewer deer we have a better chance of not getting shot!

After a day of lugging a borrowed slug gun my longbow will feel like a feather.  :)

Good luck and be safe.
There is no great fun, satisfaction, or joy derived from doing something that's easy.  Coach John Wooden

Offline danseitz

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #108 on: November 29, 2009, 05:55:00 PM »
Red, I thought you shot a recurve.
No matter how tough the cut of meat, you can always stick your fork in the gravy.

Offline Red Beastmaster

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #109 on: November 29, 2009, 08:08:00 PM »
Dan

I shoot them all! I've really been into longbows this year 'cuz when my new Brackenbury recurve gets here I'm sure I won't put it down for a very long time! Should be finished soon.
There is no great fun, satisfaction, or joy derived from doing something that's easy.  Coach John Wooden

Offline Tioga

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #110 on: December 01, 2009, 12:43:00 PM »
So yesterday I decided to trudge the 1.9 miles into a hollow in 2G that faces Rt 6 on the south side. It's a brutal hike in, and even worse on the way out. I was facing WMU 3A, where doe season is open. Seen a spike buck and that was it.

All told, I might have heard 15 distant shots between dawn and dusk even in the area where doe season was open. Don't let anyone tell you that hunters aren't getting "back in" because I ran into 4 back there.

  This morning I heard 2 shots. I know of one buck that was taken. In the afternoon, I put my radio on the scan mode and was picking up all kinds of hunters that aren't very happy about what's going on. Camp next door to me usually has 12-15 hunters up. This year they have 3. I know of several camps like that where the hunters just haven't bothered coming up. It's very sad.
Alleghenny Mtn Bow 48@27
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Wensel Woodsmen

Offline Peckerwood

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #111 on: December 01, 2009, 05:26:00 PM »
I am afraid the Pa.Game Commission may be working themselves out of a job. I am surrounded by Michaux state forest and heard 2 shots the 1st day and none today. I took a little drive in the mountains yesterday and seemed like hunting pressure was way down.  I have been hunting for 33 years and now don't even bother with hunting  Pa. I even took my feeder down 2 years ago. My wife and I used to enjoy looking at the deer but now the corn rots.
It is very sad and I am pi*&ed.

Bill
NO matter where you go there you  are !

Offline monkeyball

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #112 on: December 01, 2009, 05:48:00 PM »
Our local processor took in 11 deer yesterday.Way,
way, down.

Offline Earl Jeff

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #113 on: December 01, 2009, 06:44:00 PM »
Hunted yesterday and today saw 1 deer both days, heard a few shots yesterday and less today. I Can remember when I started hunting in the late 70's and thru the 80's when it got light the morning of the first day the shooting would start and continue until dark and you could only shoot bucks. Now it's brown and it's down and you only hear 15 or 20 shots all day, give me a break this is a JOKE.

Offline danseitz

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #114 on: December 01, 2009, 07:54:00 PM »
Everyone needs to read the newspaper article I posted above especially the last quote from the pgc which tells us what they perceive as their mission. It's a "green" weenie balance thing.

Tweeties, trilliums? Yes. Deer? I don' think so!
No matter how tough the cut of meat, you can always stick your fork in the gravy.

Offline RedShaft

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #115 on: December 01, 2009, 10:28:00 PM »
I hear ya... not much shooting first day around here and today was really bad, almost none, and this is second day of buck! plus you can shoot does too... not very many guys out today, i couldnt belive it for the 2nd day of buck!!! there used to be a heck of alot more shoting and you could only shoot buck then. seen 2 does iin a clear cut on monday and scragly halk rack fork today. i sat from dark to dark both days... tough to do when not much goin on around you....
Rough Country.. The Hunters Choice

Offline JDinPA

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #116 on: December 01, 2009, 10:34:00 PM »
I bow hunted the season gun opener yesterday from 1:00-5:00.

I heard maybe 10 shots all afternoon.
I saw three does.

Yes, the weather was foul, but my season doe sightings have been celler low.

Offline longbowman

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #117 on: December 02, 2009, 08:38:00 AM »
I think the sad thing is that the people in charge have worked themselves into a "can't" fix it situation.  If they decide to halt doe hunting for even one season I know tons of hunters who would quit because now the PGC isn't even gonna let them kill any deer because there are no legal buck and you can't shoot a doe.  If they leave it like it is people are just gonna quit because there's no deer to shoot at.  If you take a kid out and they don't see anything then they don't want to hunt.  I'm not sure how they can fix it all.  I'll hunt no matter what but even I wish they would just make the AR a 3 point thing state wide so I could shoot a buck now and then too.

Offline dan ferguson

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #118 on: December 02, 2009, 10:45:00 AM »
All this makes me have a heavy heart, I lived in PA from around 1968 to 1972 in Lycoming co. We hunted Potter,Tioga,Clinton also. Still have friends I keep in contact with back there, I asked a friend from back there recently about some of our old hunting grounds we stomped on as a kid, he told me there were houses on most of the areas we used to roam. He is a logger there and the regs hes has to put up with is unreal. I really am sorry to hear what is happening back there. The commision needs to go to work and keep politics out of it, Do you suppose the insurance companies are happy for less collisions, How long does it take to get the browse back. I really feel for you guys, Sorry for your loss.


T

Offline Dave Bulla

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Re: PA DEER HUNTERS???????????
« Reply #119 on: December 02, 2009, 10:51:00 AM »
Well, I only read as far as page 5....

I grew up in Columbia county PA and started hunting when I was 12 in 1977.  Moved away to join the Marines in 1984 but have been back quite a few years since then to hunt.  I currently live in MO and love it.

So, that's my "history" if it makes any difference.

My take is that I think Gary Alt made a lot of sense.  His theories were sound as far as management, habitat, sex ratios and age structure went.  However, I think the effectiveness of hunters in PA was underestimated.  Mainly, the sheer numbers of hunters and the use of small to large scale deer drives just overpowered the herd once permit numbers were opened up.  Ask yourself, why does the midwest have so many big deer?  Here in MO, there are LOTS of deer and we have some huge bucks.  We can buy all the doe tags we want.  We have an archery season that runs from September 15th to January 15th plus we can hunt on Sundays!  Our main rifle season (Open for buck or doe depending on what tags you buy) is usually for 10 days around the second week of November right in the peak of the rut!  We also have a separate doe only season afterwords then sometimes a late season for does again.  We have far fewer acres of timber for cover.  Why do we have such good deer hunting?

I never would have thought of it back when I lived in PA but I now think part of it is hunting with large gangs and putting on deer drive after deer drive.  I've hunted with gangs as a kid and we would push out the whole side of a mountain, get some shooting and make note of the direction any deer ran that "got away" then go over there and do another drive.  Over and over.  Mountainsides or woodlots, we could push every deer in an area.  Some gangs don't even sit on opening morning, just start right off with doing drives.  I thought I was a good deer hunter when I lived in PA but when I moved to MO I realized that I had almost no clue how to hunt deer without pushing them, jump shooting or hunting escape routes of panicked deer.

I am kinda cringing as I write this expecting to get blasted for knocking a traditional method of hunting there in PA.  I don't usually knock ANY method of hunting and drives are a method that I myself used and enjoyed as a kid but I have to stick with what I feel is an accurate observation.

Back in the 70's and 80's when we did all the driving, it was still a buck only season and only one deer per year.  When doe seasons were started, it was a draw tag and you could only use it if you didn't kill a buck.  Even with over a million hunters in the woods on opening morning and the use of drives, the PA herd was able to sustain the pressure because you couldn't kill but one deer.  The "management" problem back then was, that deer had to be a buck and the sex ration really was screwed up BAD.  I remember seeing 20 to 40 does in a day and not a single buck.  That clue alone should have tipped deer managers off to the efficiency of the hunters in PA.

I think it's a simple matter of you can't have your cake and eat it too.  You can't have the numbers of hunters PA has and use the methods that are common and still have multiple deer permits available.  They WILL get used.  The deer WILL get killed.  The supply WILL dry up.

As for buying doe tags to burn, that's just stupid.  Especially if you go around bragging about it.  All that happens is the state will say something like, "A lot of deer hunters are buying doe tags to burn.  Probably 10% of the tags we sell are deliberately not used.  We need to start offering 15% more tags to compensate for the radicals who burn theirs."  Think it won't happen?  Think again.

It's really a tough call.  Trying to make changes and buck tradition in a state like PA is a loosing proposition.  I hope like hell you all get it figured out.  I'd like to move back there some day since all my family is there.  I'm getting spoiled out here in MO.

Oh, by the way, I expect deer drives do get used out here but I've not personally seen it done.  It might be a regional thing.  Here where I hunt, it's mostly smaller woodlots and crop land.  Picture south central PA Amish country.  Down in the Ozarks with the big timber it may be different.  I just don't know.
Dave


I've come to believe that the keys to shooting well for me are good form, trusting the bow to do all the work, and having the confidence in the bow and myself to remain motionless and relaxed at release until the arrow hits the mark.

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