Entering your trophys in pope and Young or other record keeping programs

[George D. Stout]

Horn Hunter,  I'll take your challenge bud.  Not everyone has elastic ethics when it comes to horn porn. 8^).

[Bill Kissner]

I don't believe Comptons book has any deductions? Is that correct?

[Scarne]

There isn't one person in this thread...NOT A ONE...who would pass up the opportunity at a world record anything.  Deny it all you want I've been personally involved in enough of it to know otherwise.

The records program(s) is based on sportsmanship and the honor system.  Just like expected behavior in the field.  Everybody knows somebody personally who is less than honorable.  Warden609 probably knows more than one.

Bone has been and will always be the object of desire.  There isn't one person here who would pass up a 150 inch 8-point for a slickhead standing right next to that 8-pointer.

These programs are designed to generate interest, which generates money, participation, public awarness etc.  Yes it is about money.  Always has been, always will be.  Anti's have money, competitive special interest groups have money, we need money.  BTW...not that it really matters but the traditional market dosen't have enough money to sit at the table let alone play in the game.  Without these programs most of you wouldn't be bowhunting.

You ought to be thankfull Clubs like B/C ad P/Y exist and there are people that are actively involved at thier own expense.  I'll tell you here and now any one of the 100 regular members in the B/C club donates more money to the politics of "hunting" than most any one of you will make all year.

So...while your whining about inches, symetery, horn porn, poachers, et all.  Just remember...you don't get to do what it is you like to do because you have a "right"...you don't.  You get to do it because somebody else is paying our way through it.

Odd...I find most people that are opposed to "records programs" have that mentality till they kill one.  I hear quite often "I don't want to enter it, I just want to know how big it is"  Why, I ask do you want to know if it isn't that important to begin with?

So they can brag to thier buddies just like Thor and Grog did when they were painitng the hunt on thier cave walls 10K years ago.  That's right boys and girls the first record programs started 10k years ago Thor and Grog RECORDING the hunt on the walls.  And you can bet each knew exactly who killed what and how big it was.

[longbowben]

I have many animals that would make pope and young .But i dont need my name in any book.I hunt for myself.To each his own.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by Bill Kissner:
I don't believe Comptons book has any deductions? Is that correct?

I believe that is correct.

[Dave Lay]

Comptons does not take deductions and also takes into consideration things like equipment, longbow or recurve? arrow material, guided or non and ground or treestand..

[Earl E. Nov...mber]

There are a lot of good people who visit this sight, unfortunately  there are a bunch of scum bags too. (Some of them are bad enough to be listed as such) Them visiting this sight or entering their heads in the book does not or should not reflect on the organization.

How the organization deals with them should. I know P&Y or B&C will jerk a cheater and "All" of his entries in a heart beat,as well as bar them for life. I don't think we can ask any more of them.

Grancel Fritz was the J/A that wrote the system.
A system that not only recognizes size but symmetry, which in all forms of appreciation has value.

Rewriting the books would just give everyone a bigger number. The heads that would take a hit are the big clean typicals like Hanson, Jordan and Bream.. Now wouldn't that be a shame..

I'll agree with many that for conversation Gross is good, but I also believe for the books symmetry has to play into it.


Now, I'll say it again.. If size was all that mattered, we'd all be in love with Rosanne.

[elknutz]

Wow, feel the love.  I say do what you want.  If you've hunted ethically its your animal.  I'm sure there won't be lots of agreement on who is the most ethical either.

[Ragnarok Forge]

Hey Scarne,

Guess what. Hunting is a right.  Particularly in my home state where it is written into the bill of rights.  

We don't need rich snobs claiming they are saving our hunting here. Send the anti's to Washington state and we send them packing right back out!  

Pontificating that the rich guys are saving our sport is like saying the rich men in Washington are saving freedom. Got some news for ya!  The men and women standing on the bloody line we all call freedom are saving it all around our world.  The men and women who participate in hunting and and vote are keeping hunting alive.  Remove the average hunters and see how long the rich guys get to keep hunting.  Wouldn't be long at all.

[luv2bowhunt]

Man, sounds like alot of you would shun anyone who has ever put an animal in the books! Give me a break!

I know that many of us here have the highest of ethical standards when it comes to hunting... not all people do and it really sucks what some people will do just to get there name in the book. I just took my first animal this fall that will make Pope and Young, and your darn right I am going to enter the animal... I have been hunting hard ethically and legally for many years and have finally taken a mature animal with headgear to match, I am proud of my accomplishment!

For me it's not about recognition (my name will not be seen among the many other hundreds of names at the bottom of the list), it's not about horn porn, it's not about I am better than you are... I am just very proud of my accomplishment and am rewarding myself. I am proud of every animal that I take, and I take many more does than bucks and I look at each one of them as much a trophy as a book buck.

To each their own, but lets look at the individuals character and not about whether they record an animal or not.

[Brian Krebs]

I have and have not entered an animal into the book. I did it to honor the animal; not myself; in fact they spelled my name wrong.

 I think that its kind of fun to have an animal in the book - because its kind of a milestone when you are really trying hard to get a trophy animal.

 But I have not entered animals too. I am not always trying to kill a really huge buck or elk. In fact; the way the elk are taking a beating from the wolves; I would shoot a cow standing next to a big bull.

 What I think we all are seeing is a phase; a big one; but a phase. Deer can only get so big a typical rack; and people are pen raising them to get them there: and not hunting as much as selective killing. That 'thrill' will wear off.

 The more the 170 whitetails are shot; in pens or high fences; and hung on walls to impress people; the less it will mean. Shooting antlerless deer 'because its necessary for herd management' is a sign its happening.

 Look how many of us here walk up to our trophies and exclaim "WOW ! - LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THOSE EARS!" ... happy; thrilled; and proud to have connected with our bows. Antlers or not.

 I know I hunt for the shot. I might have a lot of shot opportunities at deer and not take them; but I like to see my arrow fly true.  It is still exciting to see a deer or elk or bear; and I hope that never stops. My son visited me recently; and after driving around a bit and listening to me say 'DEER!' more than a few times; he laughed and said I was like the dog in 'UP' who has a collar that translates for him. And the dog keeps saying 'squirrel!'.  
 Well I guess I am guilty of that. But I still get excited to see a fawn or a doe or a cow elk or calf; or a couple cubs rolling around at my bait.

 I think when you cheat yourself; the thing you lose is the reward. And to me; what people are doing is cheating.

 So; I see it as a phase; as more people succeed at goals that can be bought with something else- other than effort; and the love of the wild.

[tippit]

I've been bowhunting since 1980 and have seen what groups like P&Y, B&C can do to help our sport.  When Glenn St Charles and others started P&Y, it was to help convince state game departments that the bow was an effective weapon that deserved a season of it's own...those were traditional bows!

I have been fortunate over the years to harvest more than my share of critters but for personal reason never entered any in the book.  This year I entered my first...black bear from Bear Quest.  This was more to show others the quality of Quebec bears which seem to get the reputation of being smaller and to pay homage to a group of traditional bowhunters that head north each spring.  I didn't do anything special to arrow that bear...just the right spot at the right time.  Anyone in our group has the same opportunity each year...Doc

[Lenny Stankowitz]

Every single critter I ever shoot gets entered in  "the book".  I use one like this...

   

Sometimes I even enter the ones I don't get a shot at.  

Not sure what I'd do if I killed a world record, I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

[Whip]

Hmmm, I've entered a couple of animals.  Might do it again someday.  But never realized before that it made me an elitist slob.  And I'm still waiting for the first check to roll in. Oh well.

I do understand the issue of money and how that has been a horrible negative influence on some.  That is the side of it that I hate as much as anyone.  But for me, submitted a score to a record keeping organization really is about honoring the animal in my own mind.  Nobody is going to read through the book to find my name.  I really don't believe anybody cares about that.

Think of a name of someone here on Trad Gang or anywhere else that you really respect.  Without looking it up, you tell me whether or not they have an animal entered in a book somewhere.  I'm sure you would have no idea.  And if it turns out that they do or they don't, will it change your opinion of that person?  

If a person is a slob hunter but chooses not to enter animals in the book does that make him a better person?  I've been blessed to share camps with some really outstanding hunters and special people.  I have no idea whether many of them have ever taken an animal large enough to qualify and if they did whether or not it is in a book.  And you know what?  It doesn't matter to me in the least either way.  I will think of them the same regardless.

Enter if you want.  Don't if you don't.  But to judge a person and question their ethics and motivations based on whether they do or not doesn't seem to be very reasonable.

[DW]

WHIP......The voice of Reason.

EXCELLENT Response  

[IndianaBowman]

Just because you choose to not enter an animal in a book doesn't mean you don't support conservation organizations like P&Y or B&C!

[agross1]

I have entered one animal in the p&y books and i didn't do it to brag or show off to other people.  I did it as recognition for myself for the time and hard work i put in and the animal i harvested.  It was a sense of self pride and i think an honor to that animal. Every time i walk in the living room and see my bear hanging on the wall, i don't think how big it is , i think about the entire hunt, and how fun it was , and how i shared it with great friends.  I think the p&y organization is great and they do alot for the sport of hunting.   I hope entering an animal into the books doesn't reflect on my character in a negative way because it was done out of pride and honor, mainly for the animal.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I have a Woodland Caribou entered into Compton. If I killed an animal that would make "the book", aka Pope & Young or Boone & Crocket, I might enter it, if it wasn't too much of a hassle. Do I live for horns? Nope. Would I take poor shots or cheat for the opportunity at a record buck? Nope.

If somebody offered me a million $$ for all of my antlers? Probably. Does that mean I would go break laws to secure a huge rack worth big money? No I would not.

[varmint101]

Good post Whip.

[Gehrke145]

This thread is going south a little bit.  I think PY/BC is a good thing.  I know several hunters in the 'book' that are great hunters (not slobs)!  That is there thing, nothing wrong with that.  The animals I shoot on my DIY hunts dont get entered, If "when" I go on a guided hunt and kill a record book animal I will put it in there more for the outfitter then anything else.  I have to say Whip about said everything I was going to type though lol, way to go buddy.  Did you get the final score of the muley?