Do Traditional Hunters Miss More Often?

[IndianaBowman]

Ok, I've read many threads on here and recently read about a fellow who was really frustrated for missing a big buck. Commented that he would've gotten it with a compound. I guess I don't understand how that relates to missing the deer. To me the only difference between the two is effective range. Why does missing have anything to do with it?  Seems to me that your success in hitting the target should not depend on equipment. It should be directly related to shot selection regardless of weapon. You should not shoot if you don't think you can hit the target. So there's my question - do traditional hunters miss more often than other hunters?  Doesn't seem logical to me, but I hear of A LOT of missed shots. Why are they misses? Kind of seems like it gives us a bad name. Maybe shots are taken that shouldn't be?  Ok, so let me be very clear - I am not condemning anyone and am not casting the first stone. I have missed with traditional gear for many reasons. Mostly the same reasons I missed with other weapons.

[JimB]

We might.I'm not sure.I know the guys with the high tech gear miss more than they should and I also know that we get shots off in situations and angles where they can't even shoot.I suspect it is close to even,for that reason,at least as far as game seen,game harvested.

[Ragnarok Forge]

I just switched back to trad 8 months ago.  I can say that while in the thralls of buck fever hitting with a rifle or compound with sights was never a problem for me.  I could shoot out to 60 yards accurately with the compound and kept my shots at 40 and under to make sure of my kills.  

Trad in the thralls of buck fever with no sights is definately harder for trad shooters in my view.  I am keeping all shots this year at 20 yards and under, beyond that I tend to focus on to large of a part of the deer and could miss or wound the critter.  It was much easier to center the right pin on the kill and pull the trigger on my release, knowing I would hit where I was aiming with the compound.

It is more difficult in my view to shoot sucessfully with trad.  There are no props, no sights, nothing to really reference off of except your anchor ( I shoot instinctive).  Having said that, those things are what I love about Trad.  It is all me.  Nothing and no one to blame but me for good and bad shots.  

Really good trad shots don't have problems with all the variables, they have shot enough to have everything committed to muscle memory.  Newer and less experiences shooters / hunters struggle with them a lot.  Focusing on a hair is something I am still working on.

[George D. Stout]

People gut shoot deer with a scoped rifle.  Why?
People miss turkeys with a magnum shotgun at twenty-five yards.  Why?   A bumble bee is has too heavy a body for its wings but it can still fly.  Why?

Missing is not in the weapon, so why would missing give the sport or weapon a bad name? And, there are many mitigating circumstances that can cause a miss; there's more space around them than there is on them!  8^).

Life if full of mysteries that cause us to ask why.  But if you use a little sense, you can figure out your first question.  He (maybe) would have got it with his compound, because it had a sight on it and he was able to pull it and hold it and wait.  So maybe he really could have got it with the compound.  Yet the comparison is irrelevent because he didn't have the compound with him.

As far as wounding goes, it relies on the archer committing to his or her personal limitations.  That alone will not create a perfect shot however, as the animal has some say in the process.  The answer for this is about twenty pages long so I will not go any further, as it would still end in a question, rather than an answer.

[Dave Bulla]

Well, I'll throw my two cents into the pot...

Yes, I do think that guys hunting with trad bows miss more often.  Mainly because for most people it takes a lot longer to get good at shooting with no sights and estimating range.  There are plenty of guys out there who can head shoot squirrels out to 20+ yards with a recurve or longbow but most shooters seem to average about an 8 inch group at 20 yards.  The important criteria to me is where does the very first arrow of the day go?  Groups are just harder to shoot with a bow that has no sights on it.

Give you an idea, an average shooter can be taught to shoot with a compound bow and sights and be shooting hunting size groups in a day or two.  The same guy trying to learn to shoot barebow might take 2 to 5 years to get the same results.  But it's just so FUN that they can't resist hunting with it anyway.  They say, well, I'll only shoot a deer inside of 15 yards but then when a buck walks in at 20 or 25, they shoot anyway and often miss.

Also, until you actually kill a couple deer, it is often a mentally "rattling" experience to shoot at one.  It's just sooooo exciting!  It's really easy to forget to pick a spot and shoot at the whole deer.  In fact, that is probably the number one reason for missing with a trad bow.  On a bow with sights, you have an aiming dot right there in front of you and it is natural to put it on the deer where you want to hit.  Shooting barebow, you have to imagine your spot and see it on the deer.  

Then there is often the extreme desire to kill a deer coupled with the attitude that "this way is harder" and it's almost like people expect to miss.  You know, we hear over and over that trad bows are more of a challenge.  It MUST be really hard to kill a deer with one...  It's just one more little nagging doubt for the new shooter.  But it's FUN so we keep at it.  

Hopefully, before we wound one, we kill one cleanly.  Nothing boosts confidence more than success.

I honestly believe that there are many advantages to hunting with trad bows.  You just have to put in your time to get good enough to realize them.  A longer learning curve if you will.

[Dave Bulla]

By the way, my above comments about group size and time to learn to shoot are generalities.  I've seen guys take a loooong time to get any good and I've seen others that were able to hit the kill on a 3D target within the first few shots EVER taken.  Different people have different levels of hand eye coordination and there is no getting around that.

[IndianaBowman]

Great insights. I like Dave's comment that we sometimes expect to miss. Also, is there more of an acceptance of a miss with a longbow or recurve than with a compound. Granted, and it was eloquently stated above, it is harder to become proficient with trad gear.

I also like the "buck fever" scenario listed above.

I just worry that we may have an acceptance of missing and thus create a mulligan for slinging arrows. We all know that wounding is the ultimate pain.

Again, I'm not exempt from anything mentioned above, just looking for some insights.

[Sixby]

complete faith in the shot is important. If you belive you are going to hit and have done your practicing then you will hit unless something unacounted happens. Which sometimes does. However I have noticed that when you have that little , itty bitty doubt come in, that there seems to be more of a chance of missing or making a bad hit.Being on top of your game is simply having confidence in your equipment and in your own ability to the point that you do not question yourself at the moment of truth. Generally that takes a lot of shooting to get there.

I had to edit this. LOl Afterthoughts. Traditional equipment is just as effective and sometimes more than compounds in taking game. If a shooter with a compound goes beyond his shooting ability he will wound game and miss. Same with a recure or longbow shooter. When we know our ability and stay in that range then we are just as effective.

Now the truth. I can shoot 6 in groups with a compound at a much longer range than I can with a longbow. Therefore because of sights and trajectory the compound extends my effective range. However . I can get on an animal and shoot it with a longbow that I would never get a shot at with a compound. They are two different breeds of cat. For overall hunting I prefer the longbow or curve and never feel inferior because of it.Steve

[Brent Rudolph]

I am still contemplating George's comment about the bummble bee having too heavy a body for it's wings, yet it can fly. George that makes me feel much better about myself. Thanks! Not too sure about the lessons here on the physics of lift and drag.........but it will give me something to think about all day.

Personally, I have made shots that could not be made with a compound. Certain hunting sitations call for a less than full draw. I shot a compound once. I can't imagine being in a position with one that called for a 1/2-3/4 draw with it. The idea of holding the poundage before let off and focusing on a sight and the target, that is just more than I care to deal with. I agree with the posts above. Know your equipment. Honestly, regular outings with friends taking your bows for a walk, doing some stump shooting, calling the shots 'before you turn loose of the arrow'. These things train the eye/brain to range objects, build confidence in trusting the voice in your head that tells you when to shoot. I don't get too much hunting practice out of shooting groups anyway. Not to say I can't, but it doesn't apply to my shooting/hunting style.

Also, spending time hunting your game. Put a stand up in the yard. Shoot from it. Best to get in a bind in the yard shooting at foam than just assuming that every game animal is going to go out of it's way to walk right in front of you and stop broadside at 10 yards. Getting in your effective range is paramount to success afield. Why set up a stand 40 yards from a trail if you don't shoot at game more than 20? Why can the bummble bee fly George?

Just my .02.

[vermonster13]

Practice, practice, practice. Guys who say I would have got it with my compound, usually haven't been with the Trad bow very long and many times aren't ready to be out there with a Trad bow anyways. Small game hunt, 3D, target, blank bale, invest yourself into the art of shooting and know your abilities and you won't miss anymore than you would with any other weapon you invest yourself in.

You can put sites on a Trad bow to if you need/want them. They were on them for a long time before compounds were around.

[J. Cook]

I for one, and it is totally a personal opinion, think that the trad community AS A WHOLE tends to accept missing more and simply vocalize more.  For example, we read alot about poor shots on game that are found on here than you hear about in the compound communitities.  I do think trad in general miss more because many hunt with trad that shouldn't be.  It takes more, again, in general, to truly be competent with trad equipment.  I used to work in a pro shop and we could set up a compound "ready to go" so that anyone with any hand/eye coordination could shoot a kill zone in minutes.  Not usually the case with trad equipment.  I think it's generally just more accepted in our community of archers.  Me personally, I've missed with all forms of weapons at one time or another due largely to buck fever - no excused other than plain ole lack of concentration on my part.  Not the equipment in my hand, but the brain in my head.  I will say the margin for error is much greater with trad -- i.e. more speed and power from the compounds can yield a killing hit, whereas the same shot on a deer with traditional may be a clean miss.  Lot's of variables to consider and all above have listed great points.

[woodchucker]

Actualy, It has been YEARS(lots of them)since I have shot a compound,so I'm really not sure if this is true.....

Years ago I had a real good friend of mine convince me to join his archery club. It was a mostly "compound shooters" club but there were several of us traditional shooters and they always made us feel welcome and never treated us like we were "differant". As I came to know more of the guys,they all asked why I shot a longbow instead of a compound.I told them because I considered the longbow a "simple" tool,and it was easier than fooling with all of those little gadjets and gizmos on a compound. They were flabergasted!!!!! They told me that a compound was definately "easier","just like shooting a gun",etc. I asked them about shooting 3-D and the various ranges from target to target,and thier reply was."If your bow is fast enough,you only need 1 sight pin". It seems the faster,Faster,FASTER mindset is to eventualy get a bow where you have only 1 pin out to 50 yards.
They tried everything they could to achieve this goal,faster bows,lighter arrows,mechanical broadheads,etc.

With this mentality,I can honestly see them hitting thier target more than we do. So yes,probly we do "miss" more than they do,but what is thier recovery rate??? Is it as good as ours with our deep penetrating heavy arrows and our sturdy cut on contact broadheads??? I really don't think so, But.....

[George D. Stout]

Brent....there is no analogous legitimacy about the bumble bee vs missing a deer, the reference was for the word "why!"

[Crash]

Simple answer is yes, I believe we do.  Trad is harder which is why there are so few of us in the whole scheme of things.

Have you ever watched Trad Archers at a 3d shoot?  There are many of them that should be using a different weapon when they go hunting, can't hit the proverbial broadside of a barn.  Each individual has to determine what their effective range is and stick with it.

How do bees fly?

[George D. Stout]

"How do bees fly?"

The real question is how can a Horse-fly?

[IndianaBowman]

I agree that the answer is probably "yes", but should it be?

I don't think we should accept "missing more" as a part of traditional archery because it is harder. We shouldn't be shooting unless we have the confidence of hitting the target that any hunter should have with any weapon.  Now Buck Fever has caused many a hunter to miss regardless of weapon. I still get rattled and can sometimes barely hold it together, sometimes I can't...

[IndianaBowman]

I'm really curious about the "house fly"!

[Altiman94]

It is more likely true that trad archers miss more often, but like its been said we accept it alot better than a compound shooter.  If we miss a buck of the lifetime, we go out tomorrow and try again.  No reason to dwell on it, because you know he is still alive and you may get another crack at him.

I just make sure I am in a hunting situation where i know i can make the shot before i take it.  There's always instances where you will miss, that's part of the sport.

[vermonster13]

You only miss more if you accept being a mediocre shooter. Recovery rates on game are the same across all weapons. Misses happen by all hunters as do woundings, buck fever isn't weapon selective.

[elknut1]

Yes!

  ElkNut1