Do Traditional Hunters Miss More Often?

[Whip]

I might be the odd ball on this one.  I have missed and wounded more deer with a compound than I have with trad.  I can't really explain it, but I know that I had plenty of problems when I shot wheels.  I could shoot targets pretty good, but deer were a different story too many times to count.   Don't get me wrong, I still miss with trad gear, but I think overall my percentages are better now than they were before.  Strange, but true!

[Mike Bolin]

With me, it is all between my ears! I liken it to when I played alot of ball. There were days on the court when I KNEW I was going to hit whatever shot I took. Made no difference where I was, if I was double or even triple teamed...it was a done deal. Those were the days that I was mentally prepared. Once I learned the basics of shooting a basketball and positioning myself on the floor, it was a mental game. TOTAL concentration on the shot and the task at hand. I didn't worry about missing, only on making the shot. If I did miss, I concentated even harder on correcting whatever error I'd made before, knowing that the next shot was going to be "money"!!

When I head to the woods or the 3-D range, if I have alot on my mind.....family or money problems, job issues or whatever, I MIGHT shoot o.k., but it takes me awhile to get in the "groove". There have been alot of times that I have let deer pass because the shot doesn't feel right. In other words, my concentration level is NOT where it should be. Those are the days that just being in the woods is what my mind needs.

Two seasons ago, I missed two shots at does within the first 15 minutes of being on stand. 3 hours later, I made as good a shot as I have ever made at a deer at twice the distance.
1. After missing the shot(s) I replayed the misses in my mind.
2. I realized that in both cases, I DID NOT PICK A SPOT...I shot at the deer, not a spot on the deer!
3. Instead of dwelling on the missed shots, I concentrated on the good shots I had made in the past, whether on game or at the range.

It is up to each of us to prepare ourselves both physically and mentally to do what is necessary to cleanly kill game. Mentally, I NEED to pratice with my bow regularly throughout the season. I shoot under the dusk to dawn light when I get home from work, maybe just two or three arrows. Just enought to keep my confidence level high. If I don't "feel" the shot when I draw my bow on an animal, I don't shoot. Doesn't mean I am going to make the perfect shot on every animal I shoot at as there are many variables, but it is going to be the absolute best shot I can make, or I won't take it.
Yes, I do pass up alot of shots!!! LOL!!
Oh yeah....I have missed fewer shots with my traditional bows than with a compound.
At least that is the way it works for me! Mike

[vtmtnman]

Pick a spot.Simple as that.(Assuming you've gone through the blank bailing,target practice and all that jazz)

My buddy(Who is a wheel shooter) had to draw and hold on a deer this year until it stepped out from behind a tree and he shot right over it's back.The deer came back in and he connected on the second shot.

I had to explain to him that even though he uses sights,he still has to pick a spot,just like I do.  

[jcar315]

For what it is worth: Just watched the Fred Bear "Canadian Grizzly Bear Hunt" on DVD. The angle of the camera on Fred's first shot is from above and is truly amazing. Fred sneaks up on the bear feeding and shoots right over his back.

Did ol' Fred have a doubt in his ability? Not practice enough? Only Fred will know. Did it make him some how less of a trad hunter because he missed?? I don't think so. He just missed....like alot of us have. Showing that IMO makes him even more like "every-man" in that he wasn't perfect.

I was hunting with Whip in WI this year and had a great time there with good friends. I had a 10 to 12 yard shot at a really nice buck and just shot right under him. It never even occured to me to think that I might have gotten him with a wheel bow. I was just thankful to be there, hunting in an awesome place, with great friends, and put myself in the right place at the right time.

If I wanted to take the "human element" out of the equation I would have used a different weapon instead of my chosen weapon of a recurve bow. I switched to trad gear to limit myself as much as I could and enjoy the hunt and not just the harvest.

It was a "glorious miss" that I will remember for a life time! Thanks Whip!!!!

[vtmtnman]

Originally posted by vermonster13:
Practice, practice, practice. Guys who say I would have got it with my compound, usually haven't been with the Trad bow very long and many times aren't ready to be out there with a Trad bow anyways. Small game hunt, 3D, target, blank bale, invest yourself into the art of shooting and know your abilities and you won't miss anymore than you would with any other weapon you invest yourself in.
 

x2 all day long.

I belong to another forum,and I've seen guys post pics of their trad groups.Some of thier 15 yard groups look like my 30 yard groups.  Then they post wounding stories.Say something about it and you're the bad guy.  :rolleyes:  

The weapon is only as good as the time you're willing to invest in it.Shooting 20 arrows 3 times a week don't cut it in my book.

[rybohunter]

I am one of those ones having a very difficult time transitioning over to trad gear only. My confidence in shooting a compound is as strong as it gets. Nearly all my shots are under 20 yds. You would think transitioning over would be easy. But no matter how much I practice not every shot goes where I want like with a compound. I hate missing & even worse losing an animal, and I just can't get over that hump with trad gear. I've gotten on streaks where I was pretty sure of myself leading into the season, but still always had that doubt in the back of my mind.

[xtrema312]

From what I can see based on posts trad bow hunters do miss more shots.  That could just be the nature of the site and the honesty we get here.  A lot of it comes down to experience, personal limitations, and skill.  There are hunters that miss all the time with guns.  I hear them miss 5 times in a row everyday during the gun deer season when I am out.  If you don't know your weapon, do a lot of practice and shoot within your effective range then you are going to miss a lot.  Oh ya by the way your effective on game range is not the same as your effective target range.  I always figure minimum 1/3 less effective range on game than what I get 100% kill shots on targets.  That is a trad bow, wheels or a gun.

I have done both trad and wheels.  I only ever missed one deer in about 50 with wheels.  Kind of like shooting a rifle with a scope vs. a smooth bore shotgun and slugs. For me it is all about range.  I don't shoot over 35 yd. with wheels and that is a slam dunk shot for me.  I have really had to cut my range down with a trad bow.  This year that has been 15 yd.  I shot to 25 all the time, and most days I make kill shots at that range.  Then all of a sudden I throw some bad shots.  I find it real easy to short draw, get my arm in the way, pluck the string, or any number of other form mistakes under pressure.  With wheels I have sights, a trigger release, and a wall to pull against so I don't short draw, over draw or collapse.  When I make a bad shot with wheels it is 3" off at 40 yd. When I make a bad shot with a trad bow it is 12" off at 20 yd.  That is a big difference.

[LC]

Well I'll go on record as saying the precentages of hit's, misses and wounding is the same for all weapons like mentioned before. There is a precentage of folks regardless of the weapon that decides to put forth the effort of mastering it and only taking slam dunk shots regardless of the size of the trophy and are completely happy with no shot days.

Now for compounders I've seen guys who can regularly shoot ping pong balls out to forty yards but yet miss or wound deer every year because they think standing on level ground with a perfect stance  checking the bubble level etc is the same as being 18' high on a small platform with adrenline running through your veins waiting on a deer to step into your shooting lane. It's is WAY easier to punch paper targets accurately with a compound than a recurve BUT that does not transfer to hunting. I've seen the same for stickbows also but think alot of failures here relate to the it's expected or OK to miss which is bull also.

I've seen the same mentallity here as "Yeah I hunt in the rain but wait for the absolute 100% chance for a killing shot". I'm thinking isn't that what we all should do every single day regardless of the weather or weapon? Just recently I've seen several posts about straight down shooting on deer with 3 pages of responses of thats great, awesome shot! I'm sorry but that's a LOW PRECENTAGE SHOT EVERY TIME!! YOU GOT LUCKY go buy a lottery ticket, no wait you've used up your luck! Yeap I did it once and since then lets just say I've let lots and I mean lots of animals go if that's the only shot given and have no regrets! So flame on thats my opinion.

[Sam McMichael]

I tend to agree that trad shooters may miss more, or perhaps we are are simply more open about admitting it.But I have heard more compound shooters talk about sticking one but not recovering it.

[IndianaBowman]

This is tremendous discussion. I think there is pretty good concensus that practice makes perfect, buck fever is real, trad shooters admit misses more readily than most, and missing happens but the likelihood can be drastically reduced by shot selection and physical and mental preparation. Pretty much the same for all weapons.

[longbowman]

You all can beat on me later but I'm sure, as a group, trad people miss much more than compound people.  I go to the ETAR and watch hundreds of people shoot and I can honestly say that if I shot like 95% of them I'd never carry my bow to the woods.  I know most people on this site are pretty dedicated but we have to be honest about it.  I've only missed the very first ETAR and my son and I have followed hundreds of groups of shooters around the ranges and the average yahoo is when somebody actually hits the target.  Sorry but like we all know everybody has an opinion and most of them stink but this is mine.

[George D. Stout]

Well, we should miss more if we aren't really patient and picking our shot.  The "compound" is not really a bow, it's a machine that let's off 65 to 80 percent; you can hold it for minutes at a time; you have a trigger to release the string; and a sight pin to place on the target prior to squeezing the trigger.  I get a little tired of the comparison....especially when we had to "change the definition of a bow" to accomodate its use in the archery seasons about thirty-couple years ago.  It's just a stock apart from a crossbow.

As for missing and wounding?  Hardly anyone is in the woods after rifle season to see the blown-off legs, and other forms of wounds from bad shooting.  And yes, I am a rifle hunter as well and I have seen the outcome.

We have chosen a sport that is not perfect, and a style that challenges us to be better than the average hunter in order to succeed on a regular basis.  We can only hope to do our best to limit misses and wounding shots, by limiting ourselves to a comfort zone and sticking to those opportunities.  Usually, it's when we straddle the line that issues come about.

[Stone Knife]

No

[Morning Star]

IMO you answered the question with your post......

You got misser's shooting every kind of equipement there is.  I know a group of wheelie shooters that will let an arrow fly at about any distance if there is a "chance" it will hit a trophy buck.  In the public area they hunt, a fair number of foul shot trophy bucks get found rotting away ever damn season because of them........disgusting.

........it isn't weapon specific, it all comes down to the person behind the weapon!

[Gehrke145]

I still pick up the compound here and there but spend most of my time with the recurve.  I really can't say I have missed with one more then the other.  I know since I started hunting with the recurve the 'way' I have hunted has changed.  When I hunt with the compound I can shoot double the distance so set up's were easier.  That being said I have shot several animals with the recurve I couldn't of with the compound.  

Elk hunting in some of the areas I hunt, the recurve is a way better 'tool' then the compound.  Thick cover makes shots close and fast.

I don't think I have ever held the recurve and wished I had my compound though? Even after missing a giant.

[ChuckC]

I believe that the statement " I coulda got him with a compound" is very real.  As was stated above  a compund is a couple steps above a recurve or longbow in terms of ease of accuracy.  

I know almost nobody who shoots a compound bare bow with fingers.  Everybody has $500 worth of added on do-dad's.  Does this help ?  Darn right it does. Every time you add a do-dad it helps with accuracy.  The release, the HUGE let-off, the front sight, the rear peep, etc etc.  

Compounds are not even in the same ball park as "traditional" bows, just the same as a scoped in-line is not even close to a primitive smoke pole.

Missing is caused by a lot of things.  We have to move to shoot.  No question.  We cannot draw while the deer is 50 yards away and just wait for it to get there.  Deer jump the string a ton.
They also (I believe) tend to jump more if it is from a closer source.  Trad tends to try to get closer.

Missing is also caused by just plain not hitting where you are aiming.  Was that cause you are not practicing enough or because you, for that moment, got excited and didn't pick a spot?

It is so much easier to do all this when you have a sight to place onto the target and all day to hold.

I also know that using a compound doesn't mean each shot is a hit.  Distance is critical and it seems that each year that passes more and more folks are shooting farther and farther.

There are some simple facts here.   Traditional style hunting is not the same as hunting with a compound bow, or a muzzle loader, or a rifle.  It is what it is.  

I chose to carry a trad bow.  

We need to be a bit careful here cause when you start expounding upon the point of Trad being inadequate, "compounds being more accurate"  and "I owe it to the deer"  etc, then you had better count on losing the right to hunt with a bow at all.  

It can easily be extrapolated that although compounds are capable of better accuracy than a recurve, compounds are not as good as a muzzle loader and they are not as good as a .270 and a good .50 cal Barrett in the hands of a skilled shooter will cause the least pain and suffering of all and at the greatest range.

Traditional is traditional,  why are we comparing it to any other form of hunting ?

ChuckC

[Morning Star]

 We need to be a bit careful here cause when you start expounding upon the point of Trad being inadequate, "compounds being more accurate" and "I owe it to the deer" etc, then you had better count on losing the right to hunt with a bow at all.

It is completely incorrect to expound that trad is inadequate.  
The bows are completely adequate, with 1000's of years of proof.  The error factor is the person.  
Some people just can't/won't bring themselves to that realization.  
If a person can't find time to become effective; can't adjust to the limitations of a certain weapon or adjust to thier own personal limitations, they need to move to a weapon that suites them better.

Don't blame it on trad equipement.

[IndianaBowman]

ChuckC, I think you hit on a very important point that actually makes some sense into why a recurve or longbow "MAY" have a higher miss rate. It is the only thing that I have heard that has any semblance of a reason for a higher miss rate. Other than the fact that we must draw the bow when they are in close proximity, thus alerting them and causing them to "jump the string", there is NO reason we should miss more often.

Let's hear some more comments on the drawing/movement difference between weapons. This actually has some merit in my feeble mind.

[RC]

I believe "most" trad shooters are more committed to the challange of getting close and when they send an arrow its withing their evective range or at least thats the guys I hunt with.
  Wounding does not come from the choice in hunting weapons but in the lack of discipline on shot selection be it to far or wrong angle..or maybe the animal is spooked and gonna "jump the string.Everone has a limit to how far and some are much closer than others. I can hit pine cones and soda cans consistantly at 40 yards but I can`t remeber more than a couple of shots on game over 20 most under 15.

  I went through a missing and wounding spell when I first began hunting with a tradbow but I never thought about what else I could have made the shot with. I thought about what I could do to get closer.
  I have been keeping up with it the last four years and I have killed and recovered 34 of the last 39 I`ve shot at. I lost a hog and a deer and missed the rest.My Buddy Chris "Landshark 160" has killed I believe something like 16 of the last 18. Magical shots? NO!! Disciplined hunters? YES!

    I don`t put much thought into which weapon is the best or easiest only which one I enjoy the most.RC

[rybohunter]

As far as the drawing difference between wheels & trad I think that aspect comes in to play MUCH more if you are on the ground. Being up a tree, you can get away with a lot no matter which bow you shoot.

BUT (for me) another aspect comes into play while maintaining concentration thru the draw cycle. It don't matter when, how, or where I am looking when I draw my compound, once I put the pin where it goes, its over. But when shooting trad if I don't focus & "aim" as I slowly draw, my accuracy falls off dramatically. Doing that while focus on a deer that may be walking or partially obscured is a whole new ball game