Increasing performance of recurve

[DaveBriner]

Hi All,

I just harvested my first animal with trad gear last weekend.  A fine young doe that is ohhhhhh so tender.  Everything was textbook: perfect placement, complete pass through with the WW head resulting in top of heart/double lung, she went down inside 40yards.

The shot was 20yds, and I noticed she tried ducking the arrow (albeit unsuccessfully).  Even though everything went perfect, with this same scenario and better skills, I would not feel ethical taking a shot much beyond 20yds because of the time it takes the arrow to get there and how fast deer can react.  So now I ask myself, how can I increase the performance of my bow?  I am shooting a rather heavy arrow, but it is what tuned well for me.

51# BW SAII
standard flemish twist BW string
Hush puppies + bow hush
29" CE Heritage after complete setup total weight of 570gr (11.2gpi)

Do most of you limit your ranges accordingly?  Should I bother experimenting with lighter arrows, different string, etc?  Just buy heavier limbs?

Thoughts and advice appreciated,
Happy thanksgiving everyone,
Dave

[robtattoo]

Ummm....you really, really don't need it to shoot any faster.

Bottom line is, your bow makes a noise & until someone invents a bow that'll get an arrow to the deer quicker than the sound, there's always going to be a chance it'll move.

Sorry chief, that just the way it is!

[rbbhunt]

Sounds like you have a good set-up.  And there is nothing wrong with limiting your shots to 20 yds.  I'd leave it as is.  Lighter arrows - probably noisier bow.  Heavier limbs - might mess up your shooting.

[James on laptop]

A nice 8 strand d-97 string will give you some more speed and help quieten the Widow down so you can shoot a little lighter arrow.570gns is overkill if you mainly deer hunt.A new string and dropping arrow weight to 500 or a bit less will make you think you have a new bow and still be overkill for most things we hunt. jmo

[wingnut]

Looks to me like you have a great setup right now. More speed is not going to keep the deer from reacting to sound our movement.  Work on minimizing the sound your bow makes and you'll be doing about all you can do.

Dang if you think they duck in MO, you should try these TX whitetails.  They come out of there mothers ducking.

LOL

Mike

[DaveBriner]

Originally posted by wingnut:
Dang if you think they duck in MO, you should try these TX whitetails.  They come out of there mothers ducking.

LOL

Mike

           

Yeah, I know it's a pretty good setup, and quietness is where it's at, which I admittedly need to work on a little.  I need to experiment more with moving the puppies around a bit.  Was really thinking about trying a new string and wondering what might work, and if that would necessitate different arrows.
Thanks,
Dave

[Charlie Lamb]

Dave,

As mentioned above you can't overcome the string jumping with arrow speed.

Make sure all elements of the bow are quiet... vibration, etc.

If your arrow is well tuned, consider a little less fletch height and/or helical. Sometimes it's the arrow noise that scares them.

Also many archers make a lot of movement during shot execution and/or follow through. A video of the process could help you assess that.

[Bjorn]

Some great points above.........it might help to consider when to shoot. An alert deer will duck the string because they saw you draw, or saw the string and hand move at release, or even saw the arrow.
Sometimes you can catch them with their head down or behind a bush, or looking away. Do everything you can to make the equipment quiet; I think string ducking is about what they see an much as what they hear.

[DaveBriner]

Originally posted by Charlie Lamb:
Make sure all elements of the bow are quiet... vibration, etc.

If your arrow is well tuned, consider a little less fletch height and/or helical. Sometimes it's the arrow noise that scares them.

On a slightly different topic then, how the heck do I keep these wensel woodsmans from whistling?

Thanks,
Dave

[Bill Carlsen]

Sometimes animals can be too close. It is rare for an animal, particularly deer, to not react to the sound of the shot or to the commotion of making a shot. Here is what I think I have learned. When a deer is very close and you take  your shot they get startled...I mean, they sort of over react and jump  out of their skin. On longer shots, say 20+ yards the noise of the shot, being farther away, does not illicit a startle reaction. Most of the time I will get a look in my direction rather than a "jump the string" reaction, so taking the longer shot, at least for me, has been less startling to the deer and the shot placement, if I am up to it, is often better than the really close shots. I welcome comments.

[Gil Verwey]

I would rather my bow be quiet than fast. I have bow hunted since 1968 and limit my shots to around 25 yards and under for whitetail, based on my ability and habit.

Having said that you can quiet your bow and increase the speed by using a skiny string. I use 6 strand 450+ strings, which added around 10 fps and quieted my bow even more than with other strings. Try one from CJC. He is a sponsor here. You don't have anything to loose, but in my opinion will gain in performance and quiet your bow even more.

On recurves I used to use bow hush and cat whiskers to quiet them. On my longbows I only use cat whiskers. They seem to quiet my bow more than any other silencers.

Congatuations on the doe and good shot.

Gil

PS -  Ooops I see you are using a BW. I had several BWs as did many of my friends and they required a very high brace height (on ours 8.5" to 9") to remain quiet for us. I would recommend a high brace height and bow hush for the Widow. Play around with it and see what works for you.

[shakeyslim]

Originally posted by Bjorn:
Some great points above.........it might help to consider when to shoot. An alert deer will duck the string because they saw you draw, or saw the string and hand move at release, or even saw the arrow.
Sometimes you can catch them with their head down or behind a bush, or looking away. Do everything you can to make the equipment quiet; I think string ducking is about what they see an much as what they hear.

speed of sound and reaction speed and speed of arrow couples to mean surely is more what they see than what they hear (ithink!) quite has gotten me a second shot though

[BONE]

Bill, I have come to the same conclusion that you have. Seems that they don't get near as up-set at 20 as they do at 8.-----Bone

[J. Cook]

One thing to consider, is that it's been scientifically proven time and time again that they can still duck the fastest compound out there - given the right circumstances.  So as pointed out above, take high % shots and work to ensure the animal is calm.  If you have to make an audible grunt to stop a deer to shoot...aim low, it WILL duck.  Best to shoot when calm and quiet your bow as much as possible as that has more effect than arrow speed in my mind and experience!

Good luck!

[Grant Young]

Gosh Rob- you sounded like me. That should be scary, LOL. Check out "Whitetail Dreams" featuring Barry Wensel fo some very good info regarding "string jumping." My honest opinion regarding arrow weight is that one should find an arrow that not only tunes extra well to the bow but, also, meets the tragectory most easily seen and assimilated into action by the shooter. Congratulations on your deer. For goodness sake, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Grant

[KentuckyTJ]

You made a perfect shot with your setup. But with that said by all means experiment. That's the fun stuff. Remember with lighter arrows comes more noise though. Noise makes unaware deer duck and there's the trade off. Believe me an aware deer can duck the string at 10 yards no matter how fast you get it going.

My 2 penny's

[razorsharptokill]

It's not broke, don't fix it.

[bornagainbowhunter]

I have never shot WW broadheads, but i have shot snuffers and deadheads.  They all have a whistle.  I have never had one jump the string from it, though.  I shoot a longbow that is very quiet, when the deadheads whistle, it only seems to make the deer look my direction, not jump. By then it is over.

[Otto]

I have virtually the same setup as you, down to using the same weight arrow and head.  Two things I have done to my setup, both help quiet my Widow down to the point where it's just a soft dull "thump".

1.  I use a padded loop string.
2.  Someone mentioned it earlier...I keep my brace at 9 inches.

Give the brace height a try first as it's the easiest and see if you hear a difference.  Obviously you'll have to have a string made but there's a bunch of folks around that'll make you a padded loop string.

Good luck.

[KSdan]

I agree with much that has already been said. My set up is almost identical to yours; BW SA. 55# @ 31". 550gr. arrow with 250 up front. Brace height at 8 5/8".  Two sets of rubber whiskers and wool yarn on the string @ the limbs have worked great.    

I may not be aware enough, but I have yet to actually "see" a deer jump the string under 20 yds. I usually shoot when they are not alert, and actually take most of my deer when they are moving.  I like a slow walking deer at 20 yd. or less. That 10-15 yd. slowly walking is puuuurrfect!!