Lined or unlined? " another wool Question"

[Covey]

I know I've been asking alot of questions about clothing here lately, but I know you guys will stear me right! I've bought alot of wool sweaters from the goodwill and had great luck with it, but I'm getting ready to drop some cash on some high end stuff. I'm starting with the pants cause I have alot of wool for the top. I am purdy well settled on greywolf but I don't know wether to get lined or unlined! merino underwear or lined pants or both? help me out here guy's, Jason

[ChuckC]

Depends a lot on your needs.   I don't get cold near as easily as a bunch of my friends but I get overheated really easy.  I have wind sheer stuff like wind shirts.   No lining for me.

ChuckC

[Covey]

My feet and hands always get cold! I don't have to much trouble with rest!! Jason

[dragon rider]

If you've got the cash, go with both.  That way you can wear the wool pants with lighter underwear without itching in warmer weather and then add the merino underwear when it's cold or you're going to be sitting for a while.

[Covey]

I wish I could but sadly its gonna be one or the other! Is the lined bulky? I don't want alot of bulk but I want to be warm! Jason

[AkDan]

jason feet and hands will be the first to get cold.  Your body is robbing heat from these areas to keep the core warm.  Couple things, wear a warmer hat, try and stay dry going into your stand (ie wear less cloths and add once you're in the tree).

As for lined or unlined...I have unlined greywolf hat and pants.  I like the idea of being able to add or take away with one set of wool.

That said I'd like to get a pair of bibs for really cold weather, something we obviously get here in AK.  That and my jacket is getting worn out.

If you can only afford one..go unlined and layer appropriately.

[larry]

sitting or stalking? what's the average temp going to be? I've got some grey wolf wool bibs, unlined and for sitting or stand hunting I need to pack alot of layers underneath once it gets below 40 or so. If it was me I'd go with the lined stuff, gives you added insulation and blocks the wind.

[NoCams]

Jason,
I played around last year in late season here in TN. Some think it does not get cold here.... Hunted several days in teens with a 20 mph wind + humidity. I found out real quick that the Woolrich and Columbia wools, while nice and thick are USELESS in anythting over 10 mph wind, it goes right thru. Now if it is a still morning, they are super warm and breathe really well versus the tighter weaves of other wools.

Was able to get a steal of a deal on a Gray Wolf Woolens bomber jacket for my son, who is colder natured than I am. He hunted with it in those same conditions and stayed warm. It is thinsulate lined but has no wind liner. The tight weave helps keep the wind out. In talking with others who hunt the midwest and north midwest they just about all say to go with a tighter weave wool or get lined wool. I am going to buy a complete GWW set of pants and pullover and mine will be lined with thinsulte + windliner. The windliner Jeff uses at GWW is far superior to any lining you have seen before. Still breathes, but will not let any wind come thru. If you are going to spend that much on good wool why take a chance of being cold jsut because you got a 20 mph wind ? Jeff's windliner is also QUIET ! Heard too many horrow stories of the folks who paid big bucks for premium wool like SI, KOM, and others that were not lined and are sick when the wind comes thru. Do like I did and have Jeff send you samples of his materials and then decide ? If I were in Indiana like you are Jason I would buy GWW lined with thinsulate and windliner hands down. Buy it once and be done with it. JMHO

nocams  

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I have 2 or 3 trunk's of wool, I wear it just about every day once the hunting season starts. One of the best pieces in all of that gear is my Grey Wolf vest. Absolutely spectacular garment. Oddly enough, it is my ONLY piece of lined wool.

Lining takes away some of your layering options, in my opinion. My aforementioned vest? As great as it is, it has to be pretty cold to wear it. With my other wool, by changing out the wieght of my LONG JOHNS, I can wear the same wool on dramatically different weather days.

[FlyinCedar]

I have some KON unlined pants that are very good.. Before you spend tons on a top, check out Mike Neeb's pullovers at Outcast Traditions. i had him make me one lined and one unlined, and they are everything I could want. I wear a simple long sleeve shirt under them because my skin doesnt agree with wool very well, and they are perfect. Also, you will pay maybe a third or less of what you would pay for a quality wool shirt elsewhere

[oneshot-onekill]

covey....i hunt central ind and have the greywolf wool...it is great stuff....i went with the unlined....even if it gets real cold i just add some wool longjohns and dont have a problem. if still hunting on the ground i go without the longjohns so i dont overheat...if sitting a stand i go with the longjohns. i have a lined jacket i bought off walt francis and it is almost to hot most of the time. i went with the pants with double butt and double knees...double knees are great if you ground hunt...helps when crawling at least for my old knees and the pullover works great. if you have any other questions give me a call...also if you are going to the bunny hunt and not buying right away i will bring my stuff along and you can try it out....also if you get the pants got a set of suspenders...they really help when still hunting cause wool is heavier than cotton or fleece....terry   317.557.4862

[Orion]

Regardless of the wool, it will not stop the wind without a wind-stopping liner.  But, as Roger points out, liners can decrease your layering options.  Kind of depends on the liners though.  I have some Autumnwood wool that has a nylon liner that helps stop the wind.  My KOM jacket has a mesh nylon type liner that slows it down some.  Pile/fleece linings probably stop the wind better, but they are a lot more bulky.  My KOM bibs are unlined.  I use different weight long johns, including merino wool, depending on the temps.  I use this stuff in below zero weather, and can usually sit all day if need be.  If you stand hunt almost exclusively, lined might work better for you.  If you spend a fair amount of time still hunting, unlined with the layering options might work better.  

Layered, unlined wool is fine in wind up to 10 mph or so, but you begin to feel the air coming through at 15, 20 mph winds and higher.  Where I hunt in northern Wisconsin, at 20 mph, the aspen and birch tend to wave around a lot, and a few start falling.  More than 20 mph winds, and I usually get out of the tree and hunt on the ground.  Deer tend to hunker down and move less during strong winds as well.  At least that's been my experience.  

Just need to think about the conditions you'll most likely face and your style of hunting to pick out what is best for you.  Good luck.

[NoCams]

As usual Jason..... the gang gives sage advice.... oneshot-onekill made you an offer you cannot refuse, try his out and then decide. Orion offers good advice about your style of hunting and condition of where you hunt as well. I agree totally with him about wind above 10 mph too, it will come thru without a windliner.

nocams  

[Mike Bolin]

My stuff is unlined, I just change the weight of the long underwear underneath. I have some light SmartWool stuff and some medium weight merino. I sized it so I can wear either or both sets if it is really cold. Gray Wolf is awesome stuff! Mike

[Brian Krebs]

Layering.

 Next to the skin polypropylene - that wicks the moisture away from your skin. Then wool. I do have underarmour but I have been wearing duofold - which has a polypropylene inside and a merino wool outside construction.

 Wool over the polypropylene; and then your outer layer; which depends on the conditions.
 Wet weather; goretex. Windy- a windproof outer coat.
 If its really cold; then over the polypropylene tops - wear a wool sweater or fleece ( fleece is  preferred by performance skiers).
 
 Wool is an absolute life saver. I have gone through the ice a couple times in minus minus weather; and taken off the wool; laid it on the snow and let the moisture freeze while I got really cold as the moisture on me dried off in the wind.
 Then I took my wool and smacked it against a tree or a rock; and got the frozen ice out of the wool.
 Then put the wool back on an survived. I am not sure what the outcome would have been with polypropylene - but you kind of have to figure out what the enemy is for a given hunting situation.
 If your walking up a mountain in extreme cold; then you want really good wicking; and if your sitting still; you want warmth and protection from the wind.
  I use the 1.50 cotton gloves you can buy almost anywhere; and they keep my hands warm. They are good until they get wet; and then I take out another pair that is dry. I usually keep a knit cap in my pocket when hiking; and put it on when I stop and have cooled off.
  A pack frame to carry outer layers until you need them can be a real good idea.

 I am going to try making it through life without wearing a bib. I sold my humility to suspenders; and with a parka; not a jacket- but a parka: cold wind stays away from the small of my back.

 If you fall down; and can't get up; what your wearing will be a huge factor in your survival; so don't listen to your wife; get what you NEED; not what she WANTS you to buy.
 The more single I am; the better equipped for hunting I am !!!

[Sam McMichael]

I also like a layer of the skiier's silk underwear next to my skin. Comfortable and keeps the wool from scratching. It also dries very quickly. Its an excellent item in moderately cold temps such as we tend to have here in middle Georgia.

[Covey]

Flyin Cedar, I bought one of Mikes pullovers and it is excellant! I have about all I need for the top but I need a pair of pants! you guy's are a huge help and I appreciate it very much! I mainly ground hunt, don't do treestands to much and still hunting although interesting, when the leaves start falling, is dang near impossible! I think I will get the lined pants from graywolf. By the time I get pockets and double butt and knees I'm gonna have 500.00 dollars in the crazy things but if they last me 20 years I guess it's worth it!! Thanks, Jason

[Curtiss Cardinal]

"cold feet and hands"
Footwear for cold weather should not be tightly laced. Socks should be, liner snug but not tight, and outer sock slightly less snug. Boots should be at least half a size larger than you usually wear and wider too if possible. A full size bigger is better.
AKDan also stated the old timer(not that he is one) sage advice to wear a warm hat.
I'd suggest to start your trip to your stand or into your stalking area dressed so that you are cold. This will do two things, keep you from over heating and sweating and second get you used to the temperature and conditions. When it's cold sweating or getting wet in anyway can kill you. Add clothes once on stand. I wear waterproof trail running shoes going to the stand and switch to pack boots once there.

[The Night Stalker]

Over the years I have tried everything to stay warm. Here in the mountains the wind blows constantly, sometimes you have to take a shot in between gust. Over the years I have found that I like merino wool or silk next to my skin then KOM in variations depending on the cold.
Without a doubt, the best method I found is my body heater suit, I have two of them. For stand hunting, I carry it in with its back pack and KOM shirt and vest depending how cold it is.
The suit has a wind barrier and I stay comfortable all the time. If it is really cold, below 10 with extreme wind, I have a polorfleece vest that I sewed pockets in key spots for hand warmers. I have never gotten cold using this method and you can stay stand as long as you want. Once you learn how to use the suit,, you can easily slip out and take the shot. It works extremely well.

[wapitimike1]

I have GW unlined and wear that till the temps get in the 20s or below. You can layer up and stay warm no problem. When it drops to the bitter I have GW lined and it's the warmest stuff I have. I have KOM, but I think GW is warmer.