Thin Strings

[Mike Mecredy]

Here's a picture of a bow I recently recieved for repairs.  A Damon Howett, well made bow, sturdy stable limbs, but it wasn't built for low stretch strings.  The best I could tell was it had 3 bundles of 3 strands, not sure of the material other than not dacron.  

Other factors that may have played into the damage, was possible dry fire or arrow too light.  

I'm not speculating that this will happen everytime but make sure your tips can handle thin, modern high performance strings.  This was a rather costly repair.

Please don't take this as an "anti d-97/TS-1/ Fast flight/etc. post" I have nothing against the stuff other than the price. It's good material and will increase performance.  Just Make sure your equipment can handle it.

-Mike

[freefeet]

That looks incredibly thin at the loops.  Were they padded at all or just 9 on the loops as well?

[Java Man]

I agree with freefeet.  Thin strings must be padded even if the bow is designed for low stretch strings.  

Gregg

[Mike Mecredy]

Oh Sorry,  No they weren't padded that I could tell.

Also, the repair for this;

-Made a form to the shape of the bow
-Peeled off the fiber glass,
-cut off the limbs 1/2" past the fades,
-sanded the wood/old glue off the riser
-Make lams
-glue up new limbs on riser,
   Yada, Yada, Yada....

[Jeff Strubberg]

Well, not padding the loops is an issue, but the bigger issue is using non-strectch string material on a bow that wasn't built to handle such a string.

[kennym]

Hey Mike,
Whats your thoughts on using glass overlays vs phenolic? I'm thinkin it would help but be nowhere as tough as phenolic.....

[Jason Jelinek]

I only use low-stretch strings on bows with overlays that have the string groove rounded on top.  In fact, I believe all bows should have a rounded string groove on top regardless if they are using dacron, linen or other low-stretch string material.

A lot of bows in the past have gotten away with string grooves that are poor (even those with overlays) because they've used dacron.  Low stretch materials only highlight those design deficiencies.  Recurves with their wide thin limb tips are especially susceptible to this kind of damage if the string grooves are left square and limb tips left thin.

[Mike Mecredy]

Kenny, I've used glass layered with hard wood, but you have to make sure the grain of the glass and the grain of the wood doesn't line up.  Glass will split just like wood will.

But as long as you have a nice rounded string grooves.  They make for a smooth bearing surface and equalizes pressure from the string and (the obvious) make the string last longer.

Cow horn is my favorite.

[12ringman]

I won't use anything under 16 strands in any material. I hate to see that for just a extra few fps. I would rather practice more and get better at shooting from different distances.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by 12ringman:
I won't use anything under 16 strands in any material. I hate to see that for just a extra few fps. I would rather practice more and get better at shooting from different distances.

well, to each their own, and that's a good thing,
i guess.

it makes no sense for me to use an overkill bowstring.  a waste of string material and overall bow performance.

the shot differences between 8 and 16 strands of d'02 on a mild r/d 55# longbow are instantly noticeable - quieter release, faster arrow speeds, lower arrow trajectories, less vibration transmitted through the limbs to the riser - just a sweeter shooting stickbow.  

this improved transmission efficiency makes for less overall shock damage to the bow, imo - not more wear and tear on the bow.

8 strands of d'02 is a good 800# tensile strength - way more than enuf for a 55# bow.  a 1600# tensile strength string for that same bow is like using the anchor rope from the queen mary on a dinghy rowboat.

a 16 strand robust string will have one advantage - added strands that will allow for strand fraying and breakage.  but i'd still rather have that increased bow efficiency.

as always, ymmv.

[razorback]

What exactly makes a bow ff/D97 etc, friendly. I have a Bear Grizzly 58" 55# and have no idea if it will handle more than the B55 string I have on it now. i am planning on making a new string for it soon and don't want to mess it up with the wrong material.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by razorback:
What exactly makes a bow ff/D97 etc, friendly. I have a Bear Grizzly 58" 55# and have no idea if it will handle more than the B55 string I have on it now. i am planning on making a new string for it soon and don't want to mess it up with the wrong material.

essentially, it boils down to beefed up limb tips.  if your griz is of current manufacture, it's probably 'ff ready' - call/email bear archery to confirm.

[joevan125]

What Rob said.  

[Caleb the bow breaker]

I know there are some super long threads that have to do with all this newfangled skinny string stuff. LOL.  Has there been any attempt to consolidate all of this info into something that is easy to digets?  I have to admit that I am interested but am quickly overwhelm by all the posts and controversy

C

[Mike Mecredy]

This wasn't meant to be a "thin string against heavy string pissin' match" I was just showing a pic about what could happen if the bow isn't equiped for thin strings made from high performance materials.  

Sort of a "be careful, find out if you bow can handle it" thread.

[Rob DiStefano]

with any string, it all starts with the fiber you'll use - old bows that aren't 'ff approved' should only use dacron and imo are not candidates for skinny strings.  

how you make the string doesn't matter much (twisted or spun, flemish or endless) what matters is that you don't go too low in yer strand count and that you pad the loops.  

most modern string fibers are around 80# to 125# tensile strength per strand and i'd say 5 times the bow's holding weight divided by the fiber's strength is a bottom line rule of thumb.

my 55# longbow uses an 8 strand d'02 endless string that has about 800# of tensile strength.  i could easily use 6 or even 4 strands, but i prefer 8 for a bit more 'field durability'.

ymmv.


that's about it.

[Mike Mecredy]

Oh and by the way everybody, a flat piece of wood, glued to the back of the nock, with the grain running parallel to the grain of the fiberglass, doesn't mean it's fast flight compatable.

[12ringman]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
   

Originally posted by 12ringman:
I won't use anything under 16 strands in any material. I hate to see that for just a extra few fps. I would rather practice more and get better at shooting from different distances.

well, to each their own, and that's a good thing,
i guess.

it makes no sense for me to use an overkill bowstring.  a waste of string material and overall bow performance.

the shot differences between 8 and 16 strands of d'02 on a mild r/d 55# longbow are instantly noticeable - quieter release, faster arrow speeds, lower arrow trajectories, less vibration transmitted through the limbs to the riser - just a sweeter shooting stickbow.  

this improved transmission efficiency makes for less overall shock damage to the bow, imo - not more wear and tear on the bow.

8 strands of d'02 is a good 800# tensile strength - way more than enuf for a 55# bow.  a 1600# tensile strength string for that same bow is like using the anchor rope from the queen mary on a dinghy rowboat.

a 16 strand robust string will have one advantage - added strands that will allow for strand fraying and breakage.  but i'd still rather have that increased bow efficiency.

as always, ymmv. [/b]

Yea, I guess so Rob, but I have been building strings for 20 years (compound and traditional)and you take your 8 strands and put it on a hand crank wench and a set of #1000 cotton scales and see if it breaks before #800. I'll guarantee it will or it will pull through the loops. Why take the risk of damaging a bow? But, like you said "to each their own".      

No pissing here just stating facts and experiences. Great heads up post.

[Rob DiStefano]

quote:Originally posted by 12ringman:
Yea, I guess so Rob, but I have been building strings for 20 years (compound and traditional)and you take your 8 strands and put it on a hand crank wench and a set of #1000 cotton scales and see if it breaks before #800. I'll guarantee it will or it will pull through the loops. Why take the risk of damaging a bow? But, like you said "to each their own".    

[Don Stokes]

Dan Quillian began advocating the use of FF in the late '80's. My Bamboo Longhunter had walnut tip overlays, but that wasn't strong enough. My first FF string (12 strands from Dan) cut through, with properly rounded nocks. I sent it back to Jeffrey, who built the bow to Dan's design, and they repaired the tip and put harder material on it, Not sure what, but the bow has held up fine since.

Dan recommended as low as 8 strands with well-padded loops for people who wanted to get the most out of one of his bows. He would not have recommended that if it was dangerous in any way. He did NOT recommend FF for bows that had poorly rounded tips or overlays that were not designed for it.