thinking about trad only guide service

[PAPA BEAR]

howdy boys and girls,myself and a former outfitter were talking on the phone just today and the subject came up instigated by yours truely of starting up a trad hunters only guide service for elk,bear,mule deer,blacktail,whitetail and whatever else was decided upon i guess.my question is do you think this would pan out or flop? not looking to do this full time just 5-6 months a year.these hunts would take place in a variety of states...oregon,washington,idaho,montana,alaska and through other outfitters canada.need some serious input on this matter if you dont mind.
thanks.......larry

[Kevin L.]

As someone who has guided in several states, the first thing I would look into is licensure. I would start in one or two states, then expand as demand dictated.

Next would be insurance. There's too many things that Murphy can mess with not to be well covered.

Third would be a good 5-year business plan. This would show you where to focus at each stage of the game.

I've seen lots of guys and gals get a license, start guiding and then go under because they lost sight of the fact that it was a business. You would be selling a service, same as dog-walking or lawn care. For most of us that live and breathe traditional bowhunting, the actual guiding is the easy part. Either have a good, trustworthy book keeper or find one, then LISTEN to them. Dot the "i"s and cross the "t"s on the business side and revel in every moment of the guiding.

It's a hard and wonderful life. I wouldn't dream of doing anything else, but I'm very lucky in having a wife who has a good job and is understanding with my need to do this.

Feel free to give me a call at 207-272-0286 and I'll try to answer any questions I can help you with.

Good Luck!

Kevin

[Bjorn]

Personally, I am looking out for a dedicated guide with local knowledge for Elk hunts in Oregon and/or Washington. Mule deer are a welcome addition; I am ready to commit for a quality 1 week Elk hunt next fall in either OR or WA. You would have to provide some kind of references even though you are new to the game.
Trad archery needs a trad archer as a guide; almost anyone can close to 50 yards on an animal; it is the next 30-40 that counts.
I don't see why this could not be a very good and profitable business if the right people are involved.

[far rider]

I would seek out a guide service if I thought the guys guiding me understood the requirements of traditional archery. I'm sure getting it up and going will be the difficulty in the beginning. Reputation is everything as I'm sure you know. Pricing, sections hunted, success rate are all the key ingredients. Caribou and moose?

[rappstar]

I think the biggest decision a guy has to make in becoming a guide is whether or not they can handle the people.  Unfortunately, there are a lot of people that don't understand that hunting isn't killing.  So they pay you money and EXPECT to kill.  If they don't, you could end up with some very rude folks on your hands....

I think if you feel you can handle the people part of it, the operations sound very do-able.  Run an honest business, put people on good opportunities and I bet you'll be successful.

[PAPA BEAR]

kevin.the guy i have been talking with is a licensed outfitter with all of the licenses,insurance etc we need i think.i guided for him for a couple years in the eagle caps and he's pretty up on things (i hope)
bjorn.how does a no kill no pay guarantee grab you? i promise you this.if you go into the caps where we go you will get close in shots at elk,i can call them in as close as you can stand it.the elk up in the caps (we are talking 15-18 miles in on horseback)are not call shy at all.there are muleys in there also.i witnessed a compound hunter shoot a buck that was 34" wide and heavy as hell.ya gotta kick the bears outta the way on your way in.

[PAPA BEAR]

yes rappstar people are very rude when they dont get what they want but i am a very good listener and will make sure they understand the rules.but no kill no pay pretty much sums it up.not much to argue with when thats applied eh.when i ran the no play no pay by the outfitter he just about s*** but he knows i get results.this year with ben for example.we had a blast and were in screaming bulls twice a day for a week,but...the elk in burns are gettin pretty good at pickin us off.the caps are a whole different story.we most likely would start out just in oregon then expand a state in a couple years.

[coaster500]

I'm would be interested also but in fairness to you I think I would change your "no kill no pay guarantee" to no shot opportunity no pay. Keep us posted if you get it set up.

[Bjorn]

Elkherder, where do I send my deposit?
I think no kill no pay is going too far and not necessary. Personally I don't measure success by kills-or I'd be a failure. LOL!
A quality trip, with campfires, animals and shot opportunities is a wonderful experience, a downed animal is a bonus-once you let go of that string the fun is over and the work begins.

[PAPA BEAR]

well said by both of you but i'm stickin with my no play no pay policy....its a sure way to get people to hunt then once the word gets out it could be changed i guess.the key to a good guide is results and though i try not to brag my times spent in the caps should have been 100% success, if only i had been guiding trad hunters huh.the guys i guided were drunks and couldnt hit there asses with a rake.but overall they did not complain much and agreed they messed up multple shots close in.i really think they were there more for the party than the hunting but thats their choice.bottom line is i love calling in big bulls and just cannot get enough of it.

[Bjorn]

Sounds good to me. OK get this business going elkherder; and maybe coaster and I can carpool?

[Elkchaser]

Elkherder,
It sounds like your serious about being able to get in on elk, but like both Coaster and Bjorn said, No kill, No pay might be a little too much. You have absolutely no control over anybody else's ability to shoot. You might want to rethink that. I think Coaster's idea of no opportunity, no pay sounds reasonable and should offer some comfort to potential clients.
Just a thought.
It does sound like a great service, though and I hope it goes well if you make it happen.

[PAPA BEAR]

now i'm off after that albino blacktail buck and to check my trailcams for pics of him.wait until you see this deer,wildest buck you'll ever lay eyes on and i'm gonna kill him.  

[PAPA BEAR]

well...seems like i'm out voted then.otis told me the same thing earlier but i was being stubborn i guess.no shot opportunities no pay it is then.thanks guys for settin me straight,makes sense now that i thought it through.

[snag]

I have the Eagle Caps twice by horseback. We went in 14 miles from the Minam Lodge. We would take off each day and hunt different areas. We hunted off the horses once we were into an area we wanted to hunt. NEVER saw or heard an elk! And we hunted hard. Infact there were three other groups that didn't get elk either. Oh, I take that back. One guy called in a calf. I put a stalk on a pretty good muley buck and took him home. It is the deer in my avatar...nothing great. Definitely not a 34" spread. Not as big as the ones walking the streets down by Wallowa Lake. So, I am very skeptical about the Caps. This was in 2001.

[snag]

Is Otis the outfitter you have been talking with?

[30coupe]

I agree with the others, Larry. If you can get the elk where they need to be, it is up to the hunter to make the kill or not. You have done your part at that point. Also, if I were guiding in such a hot area, I would simply say no alcohol allowed...at least until the critter is down. I sure couldn't see spending a bunch of money for a great hunt, then spending the time drunk. Then again, I'm not much of a drinker, lol.

I like your idea. Trad hunting is different than any other type. It would be great to have an outfitter who understands that.

[PAPA BEAR]

ever hunted north minum meadows snag? elk all over the place in there.what area were you hunting in? i cannot believe you saw no elk.its possible i guess.i called in at least five bulls a day when i was there in 2004.places do change from year to year and elk are migratory so maybe you all just had a case of bad timing.it happens to us all but there is a cure for it.

[rappstar]

one other thought....shot opportunity is pretty subjective.  what you consider a shot opportunity maynot be a shot opportunity to the client.

[twitchstick]

Great place for your martket reseach elkherder. I have met a couple of people that do it. One operates out of northeast colorado just so of Cheyenne Wyoming. I meet him at a travel show I was working in denver. It was a real slow show so we talked alot for sevral days. I was thinking of starting a flyfishing service at that time. And with my love for bowhunting I was full of questions of the ins and outs. He gave the impression that it was a real good business for him. Sorry I don't remember his name but I have seen him on several hunting shows since. He was about 95% trad and thats where he made his name. One other I know of is here out of Boulder Utah and do trad only. They seem do have a few clients every year and do so so. One of their guides hunts out of are camp sometimes and says they get a few regulars in every year now. But they don't have the best name on the moutain for sure. I say go for it if you have the right set up and a good business plan. You seem to be a great person from your writings on here so you should do real well. Good luck with it!