Question for those that have had shoulder issues...

[dragonheart]

Okay.  My shoulder on my drawing arm side hurt at the end of the shoulder bone inside it.  I have had no pain up till about 3 weeks ago then it started hurting.  I have cut back on shooting, Ice and asprin.  

My question is for those that had a rotatary cuff tear.  Did it hurt all the time?  Did it only hurt when drawing a bow?  

I can lift over my head with minor discomfort, but when I shrug my shoulders forward I feel pain.  Not like ice pick in the joint pain, but pain.  It hurts for a while when I shoot then the pain subsides.

Any thoughts?

[LA Trapper]

Dragonheart-

Try doing the exercises physical therapist use to strengthen the shoulder. PM me it you have questions.  I had shoulder surgery and it helped me considerably.

Billy

[Bjorn]

I have had rotary cuff tears on both sides, both fixed by surgery. In the beginning there is pain from use and pain the next day. Later there is continuous pain; rest, ice and pain killer is a good thing to do. You can buy 'Theraband' at your pharmacy and replicate drawing the bow motion and ice afterwards.
Also try this: with the elbow at 90 deg and pushed against your side, pull the band across your body repeatedly going as far as possible keeping the elbow glued to your side. I did that exercise daily for months and managed to put off surgery for years.
Drop bow weight if you can, and it is not unusual for the pain to subside while using and come on when you stop. Ice is a great remedy.

[dragonheart]

PM sent

Bjorn,

The exercise that you mention, the arm is bent in frot of me, 90 deg.  So I pull, my hand away from the body?  Is that correct?

Was surgery worth it for you?  When did it reach a point that you knew that you had to have surgery?

[koger]

I had rotator cuff surgery on march 31 this year, by late June I was shooting #40. I was very careful, did exactly what the doctor and physical therapist told me to do. Before surgery I hurt all the time, especially when lying down trying to sleep, had limited use of my arm. My tear was very bad, and they had to drill a hole through the arm bone and top of the shoulder, still have a cable of sorts in there holding things together. By this fall I was able to shoot#50, have taken 3 deer and 4 turkeys, shoot 4-5 times a week. I still have occasional pain, doc said it would be at least a year to full recover, not back to 100% ever, but doin ok.

[AkDan]

I just tore my rotater on my bow arm (left shoulder) this last summer in a bike accident.

For me it was about 2 days after the accident and I couldnt do a thing with my left arm.  After 2 months or so I could shoot again a little bit.  Thought it hurt quite a bit.  now it hardly hurts at all though if I tweak things wrong it aggrivates it.  THe doc said I didnt need surgery.  There is 4 tendons that form the cuff and dpeending one what one you tear will dictate what you can and cant do.   I could lift grader blades up no problem after awhile but still felt pain shooting the bow.  The doc said shoot, though I kept it down to a minimum this year.  Trying to get back into it.

[dragonheart]

I have been told that the joint is like a golf ball siting on a tee with rubber bands attached to it.  My understanding in the analogy is that you can get one of the bands stronger than the others and lean the ball one way or another.  Physical therapy exercises can help to strengthen the bands that need it.  Any PT's in the gang?  Is that a poor or accurate analogy?  

I have no acute trauma to the shoulder like an accident.  I hurt the shoulder a few years ago, and this year I also have taken it easy.  I have shot more arrows in the last month.

[katie]

I had similar symptoms as you do.  Sounds strange, but when my husband would rub my back right under my shoulder blade, it hurt more.  Went to the chiroprator and my back was out in that spot.  He adjusted it and it goes away.  Also, "plank"(yoga position) does wonders to rehab a shoulder.

[LA Trapper]

Dragonheart, check your PM.  I sent you the exercises similar to Bjourn.

Billy

[dragonheart]

Got the exercises.

[Bjorn]

Dragonheart yes your hand is out front, arm bent 90 deg elbow glued to the side. Theraband tied to door knob and pulled across body.
I finally went to surgery when I could no longer lift my arm. Chiropractors and PT's are really good for shoulders.
Don't even talk to a doc who isn't a sports doc.
Yes surgery was worth it, but I tried everything else first, and was able to put it off for years with exercise and PT, and chiropractic care.

[dragonheart]

Thanks.  I am 39 YOA, but in archery years, that right shoulder has shot alot of arrows.  I shot tournament archery since age 14.  Thanks for the input and exercises.  Trad gang is an awesomne site for info!

[jhg]

So its been diagnosed as such by a physician?

My tear took me from doing one arm push-ups to barely being able to lift a spoon of cereal. It is important to work the muscles supporting the cuff but also avoiding types of motions/impacts that will aggrivate the injury. FWIW it took mine a year to heal back to full strength.

Joshua

[amar911]

There is a lot more in a shoulder to go wrong than just a rotater cuff injury. I had about 5 different issues that had to be corrected by surgery. My labrum was torn in two places, I had a rotater cuff tear, my bicep tendon was partially torn lose, my AC joint was crushed, and the ball and socket showed stage 3 arthritis as a result of years of rattling around loose after numerous dislocations during sports events. Some of these conditions could be seen on an MRI, but it took the surgeon actually cutting into my shoulder and looking around to see all the problems that existed. He fixed most of the problems as best as he could, but the arthritis will never get better. It will only be slowed down by fixing the other problems that caused it to happen.

Some things can only be significantly improved by surgery, and putting off surgery can allow a great deal of deterioration to occur. Think of a broken shock absorber on your car. If you fix it quickly, it will help keep other parts of the car from being affected, but if you leave it broken, then tires, bearings, connecting rods, etc., start wearing out quickly. That same type of thing happened with me and happens to others. Don't let your friends or internet buddies diagnose your condition and tell you how to deal with it. Seek the best medical advice you can get. You will probably be told to get an MRI so you will have a better idea of what you are dealing with. No, I'm not a doctor, so don't think I am promoting my own profession.      

Allan

[Neutron]

I have been diagnosed with arthritis in my left shoulder.  I shoot right handed.  I known several fellas approaching middle age that have shoulder problems not related to archery.  I think we over associate shoulder problems with archery that are just due to age mostly.  If your upper back muscles start letting your shoulder roll forward and impinge on the joint.  A rotator cuff tear may not be exactly the same thing you probably need to get diagnosed.  I have been thru several rounds of shoulder problems that have cost me several archery seasons.  I have pain all the time under my shoulder blade and on the point of my shoulder.  In addition to exercises and ice, there is a topical gel in health food stores and pharmacies arnicare or other brands that contain arnica montanna.  It actually reduces swelling and works way way better than any other over the counter sports creme etc that I have ever tried.  In fact I think you could apply it ahead of time and it would inhibit swelling ever getting started.  It is not a cure but it is real relief and speeds recovery.  I have rehabed my shoulder by shooting a lower weight compound and limiting my shooting to just a few shots every couple of days.  It took over a year but my shoulder healed up, then I moved some furniture and the shoulder problems came back.  I have managed to start shooting trad bows again and I pay for it if I shoot too much but I making gradual progress.  I just take it easy on my shoulder for a few days if I overdo it and I am getting slightly better but its slow.

[pdk25]

Like Allan said, there are many things that can cause shoulder pain other than rotator cuff tears. An MRI is the best way to truly evaluate the damage to the shoulder joint, but it is fairly easy to miss a tear of the labrum on a routine MRI unless a contrast agent is injected into the joint capsule prior to the MRI.

I tend to agree that the association with rotator cuff injury and archery is tenuous, at best.  Rotator cuff injury is very common in the general population for a variety of reasons.  I partially tore my rotator cuff tendons in both shoulders lifting weights around 8 years ago.  I had trouble lifting my arms above 90 degrees for months and couldn't lift weights for over a year.  Since I started shooting traditional archery and stopped doing as much pressing exercises, my shoulders have never been better.  I suspect that the previous imbalance between my chest muscles and back muscles contributed to my rotator cuff problems.

[Brian Krebs]

So Amar911 - should we seek sports doctors - as apposed to just doctors ?

 I had the rear end of a truck go out; the part from the company cost 3 times as much as a high performance part for off road racing.

 If I have knee surgery or shoulder surgery; I certainly do not want to just be able to walk; or move my arm- I want to participate as the athlete I have to be to hunt....

 Are sport doctors the route to follow ?

[AkDan]

Dragon heart...

Sure you can in theory stablize things by increasing muscle around the weakened tendon but only a doctor is going to be able to tell you whatts wrong and the right course of action.  I gimped around for 2 months before seeing a doc.  Early on if I would have gone I likely would have got cut (and I still wonder if that wasnt the best route, time will tell).  

here is a link to the 4 tendons, the pic shows 3..The 4th is not shown, that hold the ball in the socket.  These are what are torn in a rotator cuff tear.  I think you are thinking of the ball and socket itself.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shoulderjoint.PNG

I am NOT a doctor by any means but I did stew on this for 2 months before seeing the doc..and since thinking about years to come.  Will this injury ulitmate end my bowhunting career.  I hope not.  There is a lot that can go wrong and as I found out it's easy to do...I'd go see a doc hands down if I questioned it.


Brian,

YES!  I started at at the local clinic with my normal PA and ulitmately after an MRI that is exactly where they led me.  These people specialize in these very problems.  They also aint cheap LOL!  My 15mn 'consulation' visit cost me way more then I could have imagined.  I still can't think of being cut and the price tag that would have come with it, lucky and thankful I didnt have to find out!

[cacciatore]

Maybe my sistem is not the best but I kept shooting since the pain got tired and looked for the next guy.Merry Christmas and good luck.Felix

[freefeet]

I did my rotator cuff back in Feb.  Felt it go when i picked up a table, two days later i couldn't even lift a cup of tea.

I found this course...  http://www.rotatorcufftraining.com/

Started that at the end of March after i'd got all the inflammation down with rest and ibuprofen, started shooting my 46# bow again end of Aug - i'd been dry exercising with the bow since end of June, slow draw, hold and lower stuff.

I've continued with the physio course exercises and will keep on doing them.  I think a lot of problems we have with shooting a bow is repetitive strain injuries, we use our shoulders in one way at heavy weights and then fail to exercise our shoulders fully in all other planes - this leads to things like arthritis because we're asking a joint to do too much only in one direction, this is a bad thing for joints.

The course also contains all manner of stretching exercises for shoulders.

Good luck with your shoulder.