Fair or Unfair. Stumped by an anti...

[Brian Krebs]

I have been thinkin on this one for a while; and it came to mind that back in the late 60's - a deer ran into a pump at a gas station I was at. It then took off into a parking lot in a shopping center; and kept running into cars. The police showed up; but had no idea what to do. They didn't want to shoot it with all the people around; and it darn near killed a guy when it ran into his car ( he got some food he was eating stuck in his throat).
  So - I volunteered to catch it. NO camo; no treestand; no lures or scents.
  I remember that as I chased it; one lady yelled at me : "get your dog out of the road!' ( the parking lot road).
 I tackled that deer; and in the process broke its neck.
 The officers gave me the deer; and I took it into the woods and field dressed it; then took it home and used the lawn hose to wash it out good; then took it to the butcher shop.    

[Brian Krebs]

Oh yes- by golly I forgot to make the point !    

[Plumber]

tell her to go walking through Africa with a hunk of meat strapped to her back.She will see all kinds predtors who use trees for killin.

[Curveman]

Learning use of tools for hunting is what got us to the top of the food chain.

I once told a psychiatrist I work with: "The predatory instincts are there in all of us. If you stir them up you live: "the wild within!" The best way to describe that feeling to a non-hunter was: "It's like sex with lust and abandon as opposed to the kind psychiatrists have!"              

I once had a relationship with a vegan who exclaimed over dinner: "That bear you murdered was a sentient creature!" I just looked at her and said: "Not anymore" and went back to eating. The point is that you'll rarely convince someone on the hard right or left position about anything and often you'll just end up in a heated argument without any gain (although I sometimes admire those who try). It's always important to keep it civil and yes you can coexist. This particular woman said she would sleep with me but never marry me as I was a hunter. Now THAT was "perfect coexistence!"            (OK, I've matured since then)!      :D

[Dave McDaniel]

Bawana Bowman said it best. True anti's and true hunters will never see eye to eye so why try? We don't have to explain ourselves.

[Buckeye Trad Hunter]

Originally posted by trapperDave:
he would if he could    

Wolfs do use camoflage, they are naturally camoflaced by nature.  As far as tree stands and scents, etc..  Do they not hide behind trees and the likes or use the terain to their advantge when they hunt?  

All predators use the terain and anything else that they can to their advantage when they hunt.  We just have the advantage of oposable thumbs and advanced brains so we have a few more tools at our disposal.  Every other predator in the animal kingdom would use everything that we use to hunt with if they had the ability.

[Tom Leemans]

A wolf takes advantage of  every  advantage he can to put the odds in his favor. You can do the same, within the limits of the law. He hunts for survival. You hunt for food and satisfaction of some sort. The decisions you make are the ones you live with.

That said, I usually answer by saying that we are all hunter gatherers by nature. Our methods and tastes in food just vary. Some people are content to do their hunting and gathering in a grocery store, but they still go after what they want or need. They are still choosing what to take and going for what they think is the best for them. Someone else is simply doing the killing and the harvesting for us. The weapons are a shopping cart, a wallet, and a vehicle to haul it all home. One question you could ask them is this. "What would you do if you had no access to money, yet had a family, or yourself, to feed and shelter?"

[LongStick64]

What the Anti friend needs to comprehend is that even if you use scents, calls, treestands, it is never a slam dunk you will get the job done or even have the chance to.

I remember when some friends tried to use the same talk with me. It just happened to be a nice cold day in November, I asked them to follow me to the backyard, gave them my 50lb Dale Dye recurve and some arrows, put them 15 yards from the target and asked them to show me how easy it is. Then I asked them if they think it would be easier if they sat in a tree for a couple of hours and then try and hit the target. It is very easy thing to talk about it, much harder to actually accomplish it.

[Arwin]

When confronted with this question I try to point to facts such as:  taking surplus deer that destroy the environment and are a threat to autos, donating our kills to feed the hungry, putting good clean chemical free meat in the freezer, using animals for food that weren't penned up in a small enclosure.
 Mans ability to adapt to his surroundings and using tools to hunt with is our "tooth,fang and claw". If you took away our ability to do that we'd pretty much be extinct.
 Fur and meat was essential for mans existence.

[Rob DiStefano]

to me, the business of 'defending' why i hunt is simple and easy.

i am a meat eater and i enjoy eating meat.  lots of decent, intelligent human beings eat meat.  there are scientific reasons why humans need to eat the flesh of creatures.    

if you eat meat, someone had to grow and kill it.

i can, and will, kill game and make meat for eatin' far more ethically and spiritually than the processed, hormone injected, antibiotic loaded, cut 'n' wrapped meat that some peta anti buys at a local supermarket.

to those whose arguments are against eating the flesh of animate creatures - that's their call, and they shouldn't impose their religion on others.

nonsense on comparing how humans and animals capture and kill other animals.  animals, for the very most part, have NO ethics - it's simply kill to survive and perpetuate.

[Broken Arrow 1]

Hunt as the Hawk and Eagle hunt. Their eyesight is so good they do not need binoculars they are built in!

[ron w]

Most animals have a natural camo built in, can a puma wait for prey on a ledge,do hawks and owls sit a tree to wait for lunch,I think so. If you listen to most anti hunter logic it make no sense and can not stand up in an intellegent debate.You should not dicuss these topics with your friend if you want to stay frineds. Or, perhaps you should seek friend with like intrests.Hunting has been a part of the circle of life since the very start.........

[Izzy]

I think you were right on to tell her that a man is a predator same as a 4 legged one.Its just how it is.This may sound over the top but I think most spiritually fit people hunt, it makes a human whole.No matter how well someone who is against hunting appears on the outside, there is something vital lacking within them, something genetic.Many are the type of people who would not defend their families against a burglar or street mugger and would give up their freedom when faced with a threat of violence.Many do not reproduce therefore without families they have nothing to lose but material goods so they preach a against the human predator prey relationship which is essential to a healthy universe.
           Hope I dont offend anyone but this is just some cazy far out stuff that entered my brain while in a treestand this past fall that has become truth to me.If I did offend your probably anti anyway so I wont lose any sleep over it.

[snag]

This irks me everytime an anti tries and pulls us down to the level of an animal. We are humans. God created us to have dominion over his creation. To use and take care of His creation. We have a superior intelligence. We have figured out how to hunt with the aid of tools. The anti's just want us to be on the same level as the animal we are hunting "so they have a fair chance". Geeeeeeez.

[Covey]

Take your friend to the woods, set her on the ground, and let her enjoy GOD's creation! don't just try to justify what you do, show her there is so much more to this than killing! There are alot of things I could say about this, but they would definitely be off topic!! Jason

[Ray Hammond]

You've fallen into a trap laid by a featherweight thinker.

A hawk uses the tools it has- sits in a tree and pounced on stuff-they don't run down and hamstring things, then eat them alive.

A bear digs gophers up.

An alligator lies just under the water, grabs stuff by the leg and drowns it.

Your friend the featherweight- she shops at PathMark. She is just using mercenaries to kill for her.

[jim ratcliff]

dont give in to it! its in us to hunt and provide,natures way of equaling things out! a hundred years ago i bet there wasnt anti hunters trying to be nice...if they were i bet they starved! Society as a whole has been programed to ridicule what they dont understand or deem unethical, well animals have been hunted for as long as a man could pick up a rock or stick    
 personally i cant see going to a designer coffee place and paying $6.00 for a cup of crap that doesnt even come close to being a cup of mud!!! i bet the same person eats the organic beef and eggs...bet she dosent know the organic cow still had to die to provide the beef going into her.
 GEEEE'S what i wouldnt give to go back 50 to 100 years or so in time to a place where people actually knew how to live and enjoyed life for what it is, rather than the rat race we know it as now!

[ARCHER2]

Snag,
Now this is the best explanation I've seen yet.
If this lady and any other anti-hunter believes in GOD and his word that's enough said. God said take thy bow, go forth, and bring meat. How much clearer can you get! That's good enough for me!
If what we do is not against GOD'S will then we owe no apologies to anyone as to why we hunt or kill.

[non-typical]

I'm not a wolf.

[Gatekeeper]

“Does a wolf use a tree stand?” Nope, but raptors hunt from trees….so are they cheating?  Wolves will hunt in packs and gang up on and prey on the weak, sick, wounded, old, young and use any disadvantage that their prey has to their (the wolves) advantage. Example: deep snow, stuck on ice, stuck in the mud, locked antlers…etc. etc. You on the other hand, as a hunter of fair chase, would pass up the scenarios that don’t coincide with the values of fair chase and, I presume, try and help the animal or animals out that are in a pickle.

 “Do they use artificial scents and calls?” Nope, other species don’t have the intelligence to manufacture things. Of course a predator wouldn’t have a problem laying in ambush around a food source and attacking its prey there or raiding a nest, or preying on a female giving birth.

 “What about binoculars and camouflage?" Again the answer is no when it comes to binoculars, but what disadvantage are binoculars putting an animal at? You are using a short range weapon (hunting tool) and you still have to close the gap and beat their hearing, sight and more importantly their nose. Camouflage…yes they have it and have used it to their advantage for centuries.

The simple fact of life is for one life form to live others must die. Your friend obviously likes the out of sight out of mind, hands off approach. She hasn’t made it to this point of her life without the sacrifice of other creatures, whether she is big enough to admit it or not. I find her comments to be ignorant to traditional bow hunting. We as traditional bow hunters are solitary, close quarters, hunters and tricking the animals to come in close is part of the plan. Calls and scents are simple tools to help with this process. She is obviously a hook, line and sinker consumer that believes everything she reads. Just because a product is advertised to work doesn’t mean it works all the time, if at all.

As a traditional bow hunter I have taken it upon myself to be aware of the consequences of my actions, and understand that the meat that I eat is not simply a lump of flesh under a plastic wrapper but life sustaining nutrition that came from a creature that died from my actions, and for this I do not apologize but instead, I give thanks.

I suggest that you read this book.     http://www.amazon.com/Politically-Incorrect-Guide-Hunting-Guides/dp/1596985216#reader_1596985216