Serving tool question.

[DngrsDan]

Rob,
thanks for the input, I'm going to see if I can find that bearing washer. Quite a collection of servers!
I'm going to pick up one of the Lil' Spinners from 3R, I think the wider arm sitting on the string would be a help to me. I am constantly fighting with it to stay oriented the right way on the string as I spin it around.

[Rob DiStefano]

i used a friend's li'l spinner and really liked it - if i hadda start all over again, i'd buy a buncha those.  

my black 'n' tan ...  :D

 

[Rufus]

Hey bub, how's Lubbock? Amarillo good. I cut some washers from an old bicycle inner tube for mine and fixed her right up.  Ralph!

[barley40]

Some spools just serve better than others. Once in a while I get a spool that I can't wait for it to get used up.

[DngrsDan]

Rob,
 
Awwwwwwwww....it's a little furry version of mine! Right down ta the look on her face when she's laying next ta me.        
Like it here well enough, but miss the little things in Missouri ..... like hills, trees, streams, GREEN!    

[Rob DiStefano]

if ya look at the top most pic that's of my ancient server, notice the huge entrance hole where the serving goes into after coming off the spool.  that huge hole took decades of string making to enlarge!  just realized that after taking a second look at that pic!

though i like the li'l spinner server, i'd say it's a solid good bet to go with a time honored old fashioned serving tool like this ...

 

just a bent piece of metal, but that wide groove on top where the thread emerges really helps to keep the serving on track.  it WILL need a spring and maybe a few more washers to tame the spool drag - an easy and quick fix.  i used a buncha these servers for over a decade, then gave 'em all away and bought a gaggle of 'hi tech' bjorn and cavalier servers - big mistake!

[DngrsDan]

Rob,
I have had some success with the serve tite I have now.It's just that with the jig HANGING from the server thread itself if I get a gap between the bowstring and the groove then it is real easy, and in my case usually does, to twist off the groove and get a loose spot I have to adjust.

I think the Lil' Spinner, just my thought anyway, using that arm for suspension instead of the server thread would allow a more consistent contact between the bowstring and the serving thread.

You know what might make the one in your pic better? If it had a set of arms that slid out over the bowstring once you backed the server up to it. Just two little pieces of metal, say one one each side at opposite corners. Like this:
 

Slide the arms forward after the string is cinched up to the serving tool to support the weight of the tool instead of the serving string itself having to support the weight. Also as you spin it it wouldn't come off the string at any point of the revolutions.

Whatcha think?

[AkDan]

if your tension is right it wont come off the string.  Well if the tension is right and the jig doesnt bind up LOL!  I didnt get a chance to try the sleeved bearings inside the spools, or pick up any springs yet either....thanks for the pics Rob of that layout!

[Rob DiStefano]

dan, although the 'fingers' you depict will probably work fine, it's something i'd probably not want.  those fingers might mask the loosening of spool drag and that will vary the tension of the serving, which is not a good thing.  

for the most part, spool tension needs a fair amount of fiddling and tweaking.  sometimes you can set it and forget it for 4 or 5 servings and then need to adjust it again.  this is at least partially due to the weight of the spool lessens as serving is removed.  it's just something i've learned to deal with and it's second nature.  i just get to know my servers, but i've also served thousands of strings over the decades so i've got lotsa familiarity with all kindsa servers.

in the beginning of the skinny endless string video you'll see me spin a loop serving using the old serving tool and #4 nylon ...

 www.tradgang.com/videos/rob/es1.wmv

[Mamba]

I thought I had mental problems trying to serve.  I have the same one as Rob and all it does is aggrivate me.  I guess I can pull it out and try your tricks.  Thanks Guys.

[Rob DiStefano]

i'll say it again - getting a smooooooth adjustable server spool drag tension is paramount.  having a washer that sticks will make for a very erratic serving tool that will change the serving thread tension with each turn of the jig.  i recommend some smooth metal washers, teflon washers, bearing washers ... and a small spring between a pair of smooth metal washers.

another thing - imo, those serving jigs with the 'tension holes' or 'tension bars' are a total waste as they amplify any spool drag inconsistencies.  for the very most part, i just run the serving thread right off the spool and into the jig's thread hole, bypassing all the holes, bars and dohickeys.  tension is always controlled by the spool drag.  yep, ya need a good spool drag tension system, so get the good washers and a small spring and have at it a bit, it'll work out fine, promise.

OH! yes - when you use the serving tool, serve from LEFT to right, and the spool MUST revolve from bottom to top (that is, as the serving thread loads on to the string), and the thread that comes off the spool and goes into the jig hole MUST be on the LEFT of the spool and you.

[DngrsDan]

"...OH! yes - when you use the serving tool, serve from LEFT to right, and the spool MUST revolve from bottom to top (that is, as the serving thread loads on to the string), and the thread that comes off the spool and goes into the jig hole MUST be on the LEFT of the spool and you. ..."

Thanks for that big bit of info Rob.         Was never really sure which way was supposed to be what.

Clear up one point for me if you would be so kind:
When you say: "...the spool MUST revolve from bottom to top (that is, as the serving thread loads on to the string), ...." do you mean that I will be serving from the bottom limb towards the top limb? Just wanna be sure since, to be honest I don't know.

Thanks Rob.

[Rob DiStefano]

the "OH! yes" remark is for a right handed bow, do the opposite for a leftie (serve right to left), so that the center serving is 'twisted' tighter as you draw back the bowstring.

in the skinny string vid, where i'm serving the first string loop with #4 nylon, notice that the serving tool moves from left to right, with the thread coming off the left side of the spool in order to keep the thread that's already served on the string packed tight, and that with every turn of the jig it's laying down a spiral of serving.

in essence, when the spool is hanging off the string, you pull it up towards you and then over the top of the string, completing one revolution.  

it's kinda hard for me to explain in just words - geez, we need a video chat room!  :D

[DngrsDan]

Then, following the left to right rule, and to have the serving tighten as I grip it (right handed), I would be standing with the upper limb to my left and the arrow shelf facing me, and serve downward towards the lower limb. Looking down the string from the top nock to the bottom (looking through the string) the server would be spinning in a clockwise direction.

 ~ Whew! Mental videoing is draining!~    

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by DngrsDan:
Then, following the left to right rule, and to have the serving tighten as I grip it (right handed), I would be standing with the upper limb to my left and the arrow shelf facing me, and serve downward towards the lower limb. Looking down the string from the top nock to the bottom (looking through the string) the server would be spinning in a clockwise direction.

 ~ Whew! Mental videoing is draining!~      

no no no - for a right handed bow/archer, serve the center serving from the bottom limb to the top limb ... that 'locks' the serving as you pull on it with yer bow hand.

[Marvin M.]

I'm loving this thread.  I have one of the servers like Ron shows with the little aluminum bar and a groove.  Been using it for years and only had one serving that came undone.

Never had a problem with the thing and have not experienced any of the problems that were mentioned here.  Don't have a spring and am able to get good tension any time I use it.  I guess I'm either lucky or too dumb to over-think it.

But you guys have me confused with the last couple of exchanges.  I'm not following everything that is being said.  I do serve from bottom limb to top.  And I always serve with the string twist so that tightening the string tightens the serving.  It seems to work, at least for me, and based on the discussion above, I can see how it could be either way.

When I make my strings, I make a smaller loop for the bottom limb since it won't be sliding up the bow.  I've never thought about where I make if first or second when I'm twisting a string.  Would the twist be backwards if I made it as the first loop, compared to the second loop?  Or since I am twisting the same direction, would the twist be the same looking from either end?

[Marvin M.]

Another serving topic I'd like to see discussed is serving size.  As mentioned above, I have the one serving jig I have used for years.  I'm still using the original serving spool that came with it.  It's almost empty and will have to be replaced.  I can probably look at the spool end to see what it is, and re-order the same thing, but what about other materials or sizes.  Since I'm going to be buying something anyway, is there something better than what I currently have?

[Rob DiStefano]

for the most part, if you serve the center serving backwards - that is, from the top limb to the bottom limb on a right handed bow - it's not all that bad, but just be aware that if your serving isn't tight and locked, the action from your tab or glove on that serving as the bowstring is both drawn and released could contribute to it loosening up.  why take a chance?  just server correctly.

for either flemish or endless strings, it doesn't matter one bit which end is used for what limb loop.  all that matters with a flemish is that all of the twisting goes in the correct direction.  with endless strings it's even even easier as there are no twisting issues to be concerned about.  

i also make the bottom loop smaller than the top loop, so that the string stays on when the bow is unbraced.

[Rob DiStefano]

finding the correct diameter center serving thread is just that - mating the proper diameter thread to the existing rounded string diameter.  

this relationship can change at a moment's notice if you use less strands in your string, or use a different string fiber diameter.

this is why i have serving threads in incremental diameters from .014 to .026.  

ALSO, what kinda nock-to-serving fit do you require?  

if you're a 3 under archer, that fit is CRITICAL - it must be enuf to just barely hold the nock onto the serving whilst at full draw.

for split finger archers, it's much easier - you WANT a LOOSE fit so that the arrow will NOT hang on the string of it's own weight when nocked on the center serving.  WHY????  think about it for a second - you want nothing to impede the release of the nock/arrow as your fingers let go of the string, for best transmission of limb energy to the string, and best undisturbed arrow flight.

[Doug A]

I am hoping to put all of this useful info to use once I have to repair the serving on my longbow.